UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Rules question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928407474)

Rules question

Should we just go by the letter of the rule or should we use a little common sense and consider the intent of the rule also?

Scenario 1....Dogs strike and tree on a slick tree and are minused. They are led away and recast. They strike a hot track trail it behind you and all are treed. When you get to the tree, you realize that it is the same tree but now there is a coon in it. How should it be scored? Per the letter of the rule, it should be deleted because it is a previousky scored tree. But the intent of the rule was to keep dogs from getting plussed/minused all night for going back to the same tree. Common sese tells you that is is actually a "different" tree now because there is a coon in it. What do you do?

Scenario 2......Cast is down to 2 dogs. They are cast and dog A goes right and strikes a cold track and trails it around and circles back in front of you. Dog B strikes a good track to the left and drives it in front of you and nails a tree and is treed. Now Dog A trails his track into the same tree as Dog B and is treed before you get there but after the 5 is up. When you score the tree, you find 2 coons. Now the letter of the rule says that not only can Dog A's tree points not be plussed but his strike points are minused for coming in to a tree where a coon is seen. The intent of the rule, however, is to not give a dog credit for backing another dog after the 5 is up. That clearly is not what happened here. Dog A worked his track and treed his coon independantly of Dog B. What do you do?

Scenario 3.....Dogs are out and not heard from for a while. Time out is called to round them up. They are all found treed with a coon and handled. They are led 100 yds from the tree and recast back towards it. They are all struck and treed on this same tree with a coon. Now by the letter of the rule, this tree has not been scored and now can be plussed. But the intent of the rule is that this tree has already been made and shouldn't be scored. What do you do?

I have actually seen all 3 of these scenarios happen in a nite hunt. These are not "made up" just for discussion's sake.

In all 3 scenarios I gotta say rules are rules you have to follow them regardless of what you THINK is the right thing to do. That's just the breaks you win some you lose some.
Now scenario #1 makes me think of what happened to me just last night pleasure hunting. 1st tree was hollow, recast a mile or so up the road. My dog had a nice long chase ended on a locust tree only about 12" dia. and about 30 ft. or so high with a few vines but a pretty spotable tree. I actually said to my dog as I walked by "boy I dam well better see a coon in this one" lol. Well after way to much spotting for such a small tree I was ready to call it slick when I looked at a bulge in the vines I had been looking at earlier and said to the guy that was with me "is that not the back of a coon I'm looking at?" We shot it and yes it was a coon. I almost walked away calling my dog slick. That was with leaves off. Moral of the story is you'd be suprised how many trees your walking away thinking they're slick when they're is a coon hiding up there. Just imagine if the leaves were out i'd never have seen that coon and on a tree that small I'm probably always gonna judge it slick.

Scenario 1..... I don't know what the intent of the rule is but I know what the rule is and I also know what happens when a cast starts using " common sense" instead of rules. That tree is deleted and nothing but deleted if I'm part if that cast.

Scenario 2... See above answer.

Scenario 3.....Again, just follow the rules as there are written.

Part of the game is accepting the bad breaks along with the good ones. There will be some bad breaks that are hard to take but you take them or stay home. That's how I see it.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

You either FOLLOW THE RULES AS THE ARE WRITTEN or you change the rule to what you want and cheat.
My question would be, how far would you go to use so called COMMON SENSE to avoid minus points?

__________________
Ignorance: the lack of knowledge, education, etc.
Stupidity: lacking normal intelligence.
Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand.
You can't fix STUPID!

It would be impossible to write a rule for everything that could happen on a coon hunt. I think the rules we have are "common sense". Lets follow them to the letter.

Through the years i have seen guys try to ADJUST the rules when they felt a dog was gettin a bad break, been guilty of it myself. Its never the right thing to do.
Trying to help the best dog win will bite ya in the A$$$$$.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

So in Scenario 3 it is all right to lead the dogs off a tree that they were found on during time out and recast them right back to the tree since it wasn't "previously scored"?

One little bending of em leads to more bending and lots of fussing and stuff. Best thing to do is go by them to the best of your knowledge.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

quote:

---

Originally posted by GA DAWG
One little bending of em leads to more bending and lots of fussing and stuff. Best thing to do is go by them to the best of your knowledge.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by redjohnson
Absolutely correct, bend them this time because it seems right and the next time you will be just breaking them.

---

Common sense? Was that the intent of the rule??? I don't think so!

__________________
Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

#1 delete
#2 minus
#3 delete

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
"God bless the broken road"
Doug and Cleo Bowers




PKC SCH UKC DUAL GRAND TOUCAN SAM SEMEN



Also home to;ACHA LWSCH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ Sire is Kentucky River Rowdy (frozen Semen) BMOB 2013 Winter Classic
House's Lipper Hope x Kentucky River Rowdy
Broken Road's LITTLE TEXAS
LIPPERS STYLISH ROOSTER AT STUD
LIPPERS LITTLE TEXAS AT STUD.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness.... Do you also think that smoking pot leads to heroin addiction or that a shoplifter will become a bank robber. That statement sure does look good on paper but in reality is just not true. My guestion is do you go by the intent of the rule or the letter. I am not talking about breaking rules, surely everyone knows the answer to that. In Scenario 3 you are not breaking any rule by recasting back into the tree. But you are not using common sense and going by the intent of the rule. Are you saying this is all right.

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Here's another one for you

JIM ( please wait to answer ) !!!! Ok all 4 dogs stuck & treed , it's slick and all minuses . If you in a reg cast and the dogs go back to that same tree and now you see a possum what happens ? Now for the nitech cast same scenario ?

Remember it's the same tree !!!!!

Both cases, delete.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Re: Here's another one for you

quote:

---

Originally posted by Charles Pullen
JIM ( please wait to answer ) !!!! Ok all 4 dogs stuck & treed , it's slick and all minuses . If you in a reg cast and the dogs go back to that same tree and now you see a possum what happens ? Now for the nitech cast same scenario ?

Remember it's the same tree !!!!!

---

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Maybe and I say maybe I'm wrong . But reg cast yes delete . But in a nitech cast wouldn't you be scratched ? This would not be considered scoring but molesting in a champion cast wouldn't it ? Oh boy here we go again ...... Lol

Well I've been out of the loop for awhile but just got MOH back and I know last year it was scratch but not for sure bout this year .

NTCH cast the hunt time is over you are walking out of the woods. dog A has won the cast his handler walks past a log and dog A grabs a possum . who wins the cast

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

quote:

---

Originally posted by buck brush
NTCH cast the hunt time is over you are walking out of the woods. dog A has won the cast his handler walks past a log and dog A grabs a possum . who wins the cast

---

__________________
Ignorance: the lack of knowledge, education, etc.
Stupidity: lacking normal intelligence.
Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand.
You can't fix STUPID!

Re: Here's another one for you

quote:

---

Originally posted by Charles Pullen
JIM ( please wait to answer ) !!!! Ok all 4 dogs stuck & treed , it's slick and all minuses . If you in a reg cast and the dogs go back to that same tree and now you see a possum what happens ? Now for the nitech cast same scenario ?

Remember it's the same tree !!!!!

---

__________________
Ignorance: the lack of knowledge, education, etc.
Stupidity: lacking normal intelligence.
Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand.
You can't fix STUPID!

There is no possum if you can't score the tree. Best not to over think these things.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
There is no possum if you can't score the tree. Best not to over think these things.

---

Re: Re: Here's another one for you

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Seeker
I'm would have to say Delete for reg cast, but the way I read the rules ANYTIME Nt Ch or Gr Nt Ch cast run, tree, or molest off game before the expiration of hunt time, and if they can be scratched during time outs and because hunt time hasn't expired, I believe this example would also result in a scratch.

---

__________________
Back to michigan again. Giving it anouther go

quote:

---

Originally posted by Charles Pullen
Maybe and I say maybe I'm wrong . But reg cast yes delete . But in a nitech cast wouldn't you be scratched ? This would not be considered scoring but molesting in a champion cast wouldn't it ? Oh boy here we go again ...... Lol

---

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside