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Semen Dogs

Do you think the semen pups turn out to be as good as their sire ?

I got 4 from thrasher semen and they have started off great all at 8 months old will run and tree there own only time will tell if they are anywhere near as good as thrasher but in the next 12 months we should have a better idea! Don't forget all those pups and great sires have mothers to and I think that is where the greatness comes from!!!!!! Jmo there is a lot of stir about some of the Harry pups but on
Y time will tell, and although there are a lot of studs out of xjr and Jane I haven't seen a world ch. Title yet but that seemed to be a consistent cross. Of decent dogs! They all get better the longer there dead!!!!

Semen pups are no less strong than any other .... some people say they are healthier on average because when semen is frozen , only the strongest sperm cells survive the process.

I've owned pups from two different litters of frozen semen and the litters were strong and healthy ... pups from both litters made nice dogs and pups from both litters were culls.

If you have a dog off of frozen semen that turn out to be as GREAT as the sire ........please list them thanks .

I fail to understand how a pup is produced whether it's by frozen sperm and AI or live covered breeding has anything to do on how it turns out?

__________________
When it comes to coonhounds some people are easy to please. I'm Not!

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Wipeout Chesapeake Piper

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
I fail to understand how a pup is produced whether it's by frozen sperm and AI or live covered breeding has anything to do on how it turns out?

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__________________
Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Name me some big winners off frozen semen.

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Stender's Hawkeye Abby was off of Sting semen ... I'm hunting a gyp now from semen and she's the best I ever owned ...

Semen pups are outnumbered a jillion to one so it's not like they are gonna win more or as much as all the live cover pups from a stud or compared to all the live cover pups they hunt against ... it's not even a fair comparison.

Semen pups are just more dogs , no reason to raise the bar on them more so than when a stud was alive ... but , probably most semen pups are not put in the woods as much or hunted like live cover pups ...

.. when people breed to frozen semen , it's to get the blood back and in that aspect ... it works great... what more could you ask for .

It's laughable to think semen pups can be different in anyway than pups from a live breeding.

I can't afford a 1000 to 1500 dollar pup anyhow.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

when you freeze semen it changes it. Look at Lipper semen, there is no dening that it has NOT produced what he did live. That is why Thorobred horses have to be cover and not frozen semen. Look at all the past studs at what they produced live, then look at their semen production, im not saying you cant get a good or even great hound but not nearly the numbers.

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HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
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4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
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WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

the goal to any breeding program should be to raise better than what you have now. Semen pups turn out fine from what i have seen. But then again it has lots to do with the female as in any breeding. if people could or would strive to raise dogs of a higher caliber than they have now, it would do away with a lot of semen pups. its bad that we have to go back 25 yrs to get a pup because we have failed to better the gene pool.

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Danny VunCannon
Home of :
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quote:

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Originally posted by V. Cannon
It's laughable to think semen pups can be different in anyway than pups from a live breeding.

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Home of those with drive!
Speak the truth it will set you free.

Lipper had 5,000 live cover pups ... I'd say his semen pups can't have a worse turnout percentage .... most likely , the semen pups titled % is way , way better than his live cover pups were.

Breeding to semen don't mean anything ... good dogs then would be good dogs now , it's more a matter of guys breeding back to a type of dog they liked or just something personal for them ... more so than a sign of anything else.


Having semen to use in case you lose your best current studs or don't find the right gyp that ends up carrying on the line isn't dumb or going backwards .. it's called being smart and humble enough to know that anyone can lose a good thing and wish they had it back ...

It aint like anyone has been born to make Einstien , Plato , Newton , etc ... look like they weren't so smart ... might be the opposite.

Yall think yall could whip those turn of the century bare knuckle boxers , outrun Jim Thorpe , slam dunk on Kareem Abdul Jabar ?

The only thing worse than coonhunters blowing smoke .. is when they start believing it themselves.

quote:

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Originally posted by BIG$BLUES
I agree 100% nothing in the process changes the DNA and I don't see how anyone would think it could

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__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

I have had a long visit with Dr Kent Laws in abilene Ks as well as Oklahoma State University on the subject and there is nothing in the process that changes the DNA

__________________
Travis Duvall owned and operated

NTCH DUVALL'S BIG MONEY SLIDDER










Home of those with drive!
Speak the truth it will set you free.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dirtdevil
Lipper had 5,000 live cover pups ... I'd say his semen pups can't have a worse turnout percentage .... most likely , the semen pups titled % is way , way better than his live cover pups were.
.

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__________________
Travis Duvall owned and operated

NTCH DUVALL'S BIG MONEY SLIDDER










Home of those with drive!
Speak the truth it will set you free.

Chromosomes carry the DNA .. that is what dogs actually get from their parents.

They do know that chromosomes can be damaged from age , heat strokes , worming and such ... this changes the quality but not the genes ...


Freezing could effect those chromosomes , but only the male half and if that was the case .... you'd see a big difference in the females and males from frozen semen litters.

I can dig anyone's theories ... but if it's just random stuff they repeat and they have no real train of thought of experience behind it .. then it's not much of a discussion , lol...

everyone knows semen collected for a younger dog is better than from an older dog. 2 year old semen is the primo stuff. 7 year old is ok. tell me what age lipper semen would you rather have to sell.

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
I can't afford a 1000 to 1500 dollar pup anyhow.

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__________________
Home of Bucksaw Kennels
*Nt.Ch Hitchins Rock N Jake*
2012 Overall Nt.Ch Ky State Hunt winner. Double Cast Wins
2012 Autumn Oaks Cast Win
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2012 Qualified Purina National
2013 Walker Days Cast Win
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2 Wins toward Grand
Back to work so the hunting and hunts are over for now lol.
*2013 Performance Sire*


***RIP Gr.Nt.Ch River Kennel Rock***

Chris Cordle
BOSS LIGHTS
CCC
Carter County Cooners

but whats the price of Lipper semen and pups from those litters?? i betcha its pretty expensive....the higher the price...the higher the chance that the dog WILL make something....thats always been my thoughts...


yes a cull is a cull...cant make a turd tree a coon well enough to get it titled...but, i do believe more culls are MADE than are BORN...some people just cant train a coon dog...some people dont have the time or patience to turn a youngun on...

but, you got big money pup, your gunna polish that turd till it shines...and if your spending big money on a pup chances are your doing it for a reason and you are good with making a youngun into something...

your average coon hunter aint spending 500$ on a pup let alone 1000+$..

i just think they fall into "better hands" more times than not....

__________________
Team Trackman!!

'PR' Trackman's Dizzy Duke

quote:

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Originally posted by Dirtdevil
Chromosomes carry the DNA .. that is what dogs actually get from their parents.

They do know that chromosomes can be damaged from age , heat strokes , worming and such ... this changes the quality but not the genes ...


Freezing could effect those chromosomes , but only the male half and if that was the case .... you'd see a big difference in the females and males from frozen semen litters.

I can dig anyone's theories ... but if it's just random stuff they repeat and they have no real train of thought of experience behind it .. then it's not much of a discussion , lol...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Harry Plotter
everyone knows semen collected for a younger dog is better than from an older dog. 2 year old semen is the primo stuff. 7 year old is ok. tell me what age lipper semen would you rather have to sell.

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We just had a litter of Kentucky River Rowdy pups. I have 5. My female (dam) is 6 years old. This is her second litter ~ she had 5 her first litter as well. She was covered live the first time, by the way.

Time will tell how these pups compare to Rowdy. I know they are awesome as of now!

Cost ~ we didn't over price the three that are leaving simply because that wouldn't be right. Jmo. If you want them to succeed then GET THEM INTO THE RIGHT HANDS!

I'll keep y'all posted. Hopefully, you'll be able to watch the score cards and see how they are winning for yourselves.

__________________
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Breeding for the future of the Treeing Walker
"God bless the Broken Road"
~A man is only as good as his word~

Proud home to;

'PR' Kentucky River Fly Again (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen)
ACHA CHT x3 Broken Roads Little Texas (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
CH Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Rowdy Lil Miss (Kentucky River Rowdy x Houses Lipper's Hope)
Broken Road's Meabie I will (Lipper's Rooster x Missy)
Broken Roads IMA Boomer2 (UKC NATL GRCH GRNTCH Honest Abe x Broken Roads Southern Stylish Boom
~~~~~Watch out!~~~~~
They just might make an IMPACT!

and the girls...Punkin and Tater!

Gone by never forgotten ~ Fly high my beautiful angels
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~CH Toucan's Ugly Betty
~ CCH CH Southforks September Rain
~ Martin's Daisy JJ (what a beautiful litter you left behind)
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~ UKC GRCH,ACHA CH 2014 LWCH 2014 2 x's ACHA YOUTH WCH AKC CH AKC CH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ (Kentucky River Rowdy frozen semen) DNA Profiled ~ Fly high, old friend.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you!"

Half the chromosomes come from each parent , dna is in those chromosomes ... what traits the pups gets depends on how those genes match up like dominance , incomplete dominance and all the other things that figure in .. no parent has more influence than the other ... it's just a matter of the power of the bloodline behind each parent.

But , sex linked stuff comes into play .. and " momma's boys " and " daddy's girls " is something that has always been true for everything ... like the old timers say about horses , dogs or whatever ... " a sire is proven through his daughters" .

If frozen semen was inferior , you'd see litters from it where the gyp's influence was really noticeable more so than normal and the daughters of frozen semen would be poor brood bitches .


I don't see anyone with solid theories about why frozen semen wouldn't be the same as fresh though ... just random speculation , not even solid observations .