UKC Forums - alpha in hunts

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-- alpha in hunts (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928336472)

Posted by huntforlife on 09-03-2013 11:39 PM:

alpha in hunts

a couple months ago i saw a post saying that ukc was going to discuss the use of the alpha at ukc events during the oaks. just wondering if this is true and what the outcome was?

Posted by Night Shift on 09-04-2013 12:07 AM:

From what I can tell it wasn't brought up at the rule change meeting.

Posted by GA DAWG on 09-04-2013 01:55 AM:

Alpha don't have to be brought or discussed at the rule meeting. If Ukc wants it. They can implement it on their own. Which Id bet they will.

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Posted by huntforlife on 09-04-2013 09:07 PM:

ok wasnt sure how it worked thanks.

Posted by rweller on 09-05-2013 02:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Alpha don't have to be brought or discussed at the rule meeting. If Ukc wants it. They can implement it on their own. Which Id bet they will.

Thats absolutley true but Todd K from UKC has already said they are going to discuss this at the Winter classic in 2014.
I don't look for anything to happen before then but anything is possible.
Personally I don't think they should be allowed because the there are still a lot of hunters that don't use garmins and it wouldn't be fair to them. I have a couple of buddies that don't have one. They still use the old beep systems. JMO

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Posted by Redticker on 09-05-2013 03:09 PM:

So one hunter should be punished because the other doesn't do things a certain way? I'm all for it, your not supposed to have them on anyways.

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Posted by Lostmtn on 09-05-2013 03:12 PM:

Well I think the Alphas should be used just because a hunter has the old system is it fair to me that I have a Alpha? If that the case dont let no carry any tracking device with them thats equal playing grounds.JMO

Posted by RED REBELS on 09-05-2013 03:26 PM:

I'm confused as to how if the hand-held is shut off, like the Garmin is supposedbto be during hunt time, how it is unfair for anyone? Nobody should have their tracking receiver (Garmin alpha or a beep beep) turned on, NOBODY, unless it is left in the truck. If we want to make that an even playing field, we should say no tracking systems... How is it fair to the hunter like me, that cannot afford a tracking system? Yes I hunt my dog without one, but you don't here me complaining that everyone else has one. How is it fair to the hunter that is keeping up with the technology to tell him he can have it because someone else doesn't want to buy one?

I personally think that the alpha should be treated the same as a regular Garmin because you can't shock a dog if the controller is off, as they are supposed to be, right?

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Posted by Rough Northern on 09-05-2013 04:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RED REBELS

I personally think that the alpha should be treated the same as a regular Garmin because you can't shock a dog if the controller is off, as they are supposed to be, right?

You and me are in a hunt. You have a regular garmin and I have a Alpha. Timeout is called. Who do you think is gonna get there dog faster? TONE BUTTON.

Posted by Tim Toler on 09-05-2013 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rough Northern
You and me are in a hunt. You have a regular garmin and I have a Alpha. Timeout is called. Who do you think is gonna get there dog faster? TONE BUTTON.

How about this scenario.. dogs get out of pocket and timeout is called.. I have to walk say 15 minutes back to the truck to get my
hand held and turn it on... you have the 320 or 220 so you can turn yours on right then because you can carry yours... it takes me 15 minutes to walk back to the truck... you are heading to your dog as soon as you turn yours on so who is getting their dog first in that scenario? NO DIFFERENCE...

Question... does your dog wear a shock collar during a hunt? if so do you leave your transmitter in the truck?? what would you do in the same scenario as above if you use the shock collar and transmitter instead of an Alpha? Wouldn't you walk the 30 yards back to the truck and get the transmitter and use the TONE BUTTON? I am sure you would...

So you are saying punish me for pinching pennies to purchase the Alpha?

Personally I think either allowed to carry them all as long as they are off or not allowed to carry any...

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Posted by Buckshot on 09-05-2013 06:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rweller

Personally I don't think they should be allowed because the there are still a lot of hunters that don't use garmins and it wouldn't be fair to them. I have a couple of buddies that don't have one. They still use the old beep systems. JMO

HUH??????

Not fair?

Where does it end?

One cast member doesn't have any chaps, all the rest does.......So are the chaps not allowed with your reasoning?????? As you said, "not fair" to the guy who doesn't have chaps.

One cast member has cheap 6v light and another cast member has a brand new LED light that outreaches that cheap 6v 2-1.............So is the better light not allowed with your reasoning?????? As you said, "not fair" to the guy who doesn't have a good light.

What about dog power??????? One cast member doesn't have the dog power and the rest of the cast does. Again, boohoo "not fair".

Coon hunting will always have the "haves and have nots". -- JUST LIKE LIFE IN GENERAL.

Some are driving $30,000 trucks to hunt out, some have to drive $2,000 clunkers. Some are buying the newest and lasted light each time they are released, others are still hanging on to their 10 year 5100 light. Some are using the latest GPS tracking systems, some are using old school radio tracking systems.

No reason for UKC to start dicating their rules and policies because of the "haves and have nots".

Posted by Rough Northern on 09-05-2013 06:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Toler
How about this scenario.. dogs get out of pocket and timeout is called.. I have to walk say 15 minutes back to the truck to get my
hand held and turn it on... you have the 320 or 220 so you can turn yours on right then because you can carry yours... it takes me 15 minutes to walk back to the truck... you are heading to your dog as soon as you turn yours on so who is getting their dog first in that scenario? NO DIFFERENCE...

Question... does your dog wear a shock collar during a hunt? if so do you leave your transmitter in the truck?? what would you do in the same scenario as above if you use the shock collar and transmitter instead of an Alpha? Wouldn't you walk the 30 yards back to the truck and get the transmitter and use the TONE BUTTON? I am sure you would...

So you are saying punish me for pinching pennies to purchase the Alpha?

Personally I think either allowed to carry them all as long as they are off or not allowed to carry any...

You have an example of a good scenerio which I'm sure happens now. But, do you think it's easier to use a Alpha tone or get a shocking transmitter out of the top of the box or whereever its suppose to be until the hunt is over? Your way more likely to get caught using a transmitter than the alpha.

Posted by Tim Toler on 09-05-2013 06:34 PM:

very simple fix then... NO TRACKING DEVICES ALLOWED AT ALL... that takes care of everyone no matter if the newest of technology or the oldest technology...

How about this question... why not carry the transmitters?? if they are off like every other electronic device should be??

Posted by Smoke on 09-05-2013 06:34 PM:

I'm covered any way. I have a Beep Beep a 320 and an Alpha

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Posted by huntforlife on 09-05-2013 09:13 PM:

smoke you got all bases covered!! haha. i wasnt trying to start anything by making this post, just asking if it was discussed or not. the way i look at it is if the unit is off like its suppose to be it doesnt matter what unit/collar you are running. i do know that if i buy one i dont want to be limited to its use just because someone doesnt have one.

Posted by bobby593 on 09-06-2013 04:00 AM:

I wish i could afford a a used garmine i thought i was cool when i got a beep beep system to weeks agi lol

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Posted by Night Shift on 09-06-2013 05:50 AM:

Lets do this scenario Nite Ch cast hunt time out has just been called dog B split treed along ways off just after time out called. Dog A handler walks in gets his dog has a coon can't score treed afer time out to. Dog B handler hits tone button so he doesn't have to walk in. His English dog is under a possum at the time but nobody sees it. Dog B wins cast when he should have been scratched. This would be the worst thing UKC could do leave it in the truck fact is I wish they couldn't even wear a shock collar do your training at home. Use Alpha for training and get a 320 for hunts.

Posted by MARSHALL AYERS on 09-06-2013 07:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Night Shift
Lets do this scenario Nite Ch cast hunt time just run out dog B split treed along ways off just after hunt time. Dog A handler walks in gets his dog has a coon can't score it hunt time was over when it treed. Dog B handler hits tone button so he doesn't have to walk in. His English dog is under a possum at the time but nobody sees it. Dog B wins cast when he should have been scratched. This would be the worst thing UKC could do leave it in the truck fact is I wish they couldn't even wear a shock collar do your training at home. Use Alpha for training and get a 320 for hunts.

This Scenario should never happen! Dog is treed before hunt time is over. Tracking systems are not to be used until all dogs declared treed are handled! Say you leave your alpha in the truck all dogs go way outta hearing, time out is called, you know there is a highway deep deep they the timber. You have to walk half mile back to the truck. By the time you get there you realize your dog is on the highway. Don't know if he's been smacked by a car or not. But it could have been prevented if you called time out and pulled your alpha out saw where he was headed and reeled him back in. As far as its not fair cause someone can get their dog back faster that's just horse crap. Depending on what dog I'm hunting I can call one back in faster than you can tone your back in, with that being said is it unfair to holler for mine cause I might get him back faster??? Rules say you have an hour to get them back it doesn't say who ever gets them back faster gets 125+... Plain and simple if you can look at your garnin and strike your dog then look at your garnin and tree your dog I will gladly welcome it! Garnin won't tell you if there is a coon in the tree. They usually blink and show treed 20+ times before they actually get treed anyhow.... To those of you who do not have a garnin. It's not a problem. If you can't afford one I truly hate that I wish they were free I really do and to those of you who prefer a beep beep I have one for sale lol and to those who do not have one, my god your brave men!! Everyone will have something different than someone else so no need to gripe about it. If your packing a coon dog and a 6v nite lite and a beep beep you should be better of than the man with a slick treeing idiot wearing a tt-10

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Posted by Night Shift on 09-06-2013 07:53 AM:

Read hunt time was over

quote:
Originally posted by Night Shift
Lets do this scenario Nite Ch cast hunt time just run out dog B split treed

Tone buttons should be considered the same as a shock

Posted by David Gardin on 09-06-2013 10:32 AM:

HOLD ON

GARMON WILL FIX IT THEY WILL COME OUT WITH THE ALPHA 60 FOR THE COMP HUNTER ALL THE FEATURES OF THE ALPHA WITH NO SHOCKER ONLY 899.00 GIVE EVERYONE SOMETHING NEW TO BUY JUST SAVE YOUR MONEY

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Posted by joey on 09-06-2013 03:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Toler
what would you do in the same scenario as above if you use the shock collar and transmitter instead of an Alpha? Wouldn't you walk the 30 yards back to the truck and get the transmitter and use the TONE BUTTON? I am sure you would...

We are not allowed to use a shocking system even on time out.

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Posted by Paul Frederick on 09-06-2013 03:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Night Shift
Lets do this scenario Nite Ch cast hunt time just run out dog B split treed along ways off just after hunt time. Dog A handler walks in gets his dog has a coon can't score it hunt time was over when it treed. Dog B handler hits tone button so he doesn't have to walk in. His English dog is under a possum at the time but nobody sees it. Dog B wins cast when he should have been scratched. This would be the worst thing UKC could do leave it in the truck fact is I wish they couldn't even wear a shock collar do your training at home. Use Alpha for training and get a 320 for hunts.

Just clearing up something on this post. Dog B wouldn't be scratched anyway. He wasn't treed before the hunt time expired.

Rule 6 DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED

(k) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, for running, treeing, or molesting off game during hunting time including any time out periods prior to the expiration of hunt time.

You cannot scratch a dog for treeing, running, or molesting off game after hunt time is over. This has been in effect since Jan 1, 2011.

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 09-06-2013 03:59 PM:

i agree with no shockers allowed on hunts. Training is done at home and during the week nights pleasure hunting. Im all for tracking your dogs, and I don't see how I ever hunted without a tracker of some sort now that I run trackers. Back in the early 80s when I began hunting very few had trackers. But far as shockers go, leave them at home.

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Posted by Tim Toler on 09-06-2013 04:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
We are not allowed to use a shocking system even on time out.

you are correct my bad... I miss spoke... realized what I said after I typed it...

Posted by Tim Toler on 09-06-2013 04:45 PM:

One thing I do set and wonder while reading posts like this is:

WHEN IS GARMIN GOING TO PULL THEIR SPONSORSHIP FROM UKC?

One of the biggest sponsors, if not the biggest sponsor of UKC.

Question how many people would upgrade from whatever system they have now (if they could afford it) if the rules were different for UKC night hunts?

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