UKC Forums - Performance Program.....Costs v payout.

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-- Performance Program.....Costs v payout. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=486990)

Posted by JiM on 02-29-2012 04:37 PM:

Performance Program.....Costs v payout.

Looks like the 2011 PRP year will end up at around $110 per point. So if you win a typical reg hunt or NtCh hunt, which averages about 15 at most of the half dozen clubs in our area, you will pocket about $165 for your $15 or $20 entry fee. You paid $25 to pay up your pup so one club level win nets you about $120 and for the rest of the dogs life, it's $165 minus entry fee and gas money. Around here, by the time you take one from nothing to Grand, you prolly netted enough to pay for that $500 pup.

I don't know what UKC plans for the future of this program, I have heard there are some changes coming, but I sure hope they don't mess it up too bad. Between PKC, Russ Meyer and and the Mojo 5000's floating around out there, us poor guys need a down to earth, cheap -to-play program for ourselves to participate in. I hope they leave it be.

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Posted by smokin-1-mo on 02-29-2012 05:01 PM:

I LIKE IT ....LIKE YOU SAID IT COST VERY LITTLE TO GET INTO BE A PUP OWNER OUR STUD OWNER,ANY CHANGES MADE TO IT I HOPE ARE FOR THE GOOD......

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-29-2012 05:02 PM:

I myself would like to see them up the cost to pay a dog up in the performance.

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Posted by John D on 02-29-2012 05:12 PM:

$110 per point is still not bad. While the point value has dropped over the years, that was expected as more dogs started participating.

Its still the best money program going in coonhounds, imo.

Does anybody know what changes might be coming?

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 02-29-2012 05:24 PM:

it needs to be cost effective. By that, I mean as Jim stated, so a poor boy can play. MOJO 5000 is only mojo pups..thats fine. Russ Meyer is by invatation only, and few boys succh as myself would ever have enough money to be invited. PKC is and always will be about the dollar and nothing else. UKC has a great program here, and i do indeed hope it stays to where ALL can play.

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Posted by Mike Van Dusen on 02-29-2012 05:27 PM:

Good Program,

I hope they leave it alone, it is a good deal.

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Posted by Ben Crocker on 02-29-2012 06:21 PM:

It's working, why change it for now. IMO, changes are killing PKC right now.

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Posted by WVHillBilly on 02-29-2012 07:38 PM:

Great program!

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 02-29-2012 07:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ben Crocker
It's working, why change it for now. IMO, changes are killing PKC right now.

my opinion also. let them kill themselves. they are on the way.

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 02-29-2012 07:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ben Crocker
IMO, changes are killing PKC right now.

REALLY......BET THEY DONT KNOW IT....lLIKE UKC THEY ARE GROWING EVERY DAY....NOW AKC ON THE OTHER HAND IS A SINKING SHIP....

Posted by Blackwater Pete on 02-29-2012 08:04 PM:

bet they wont either

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Posted by jculler8 on 02-29-2012 09:38 PM:

Re: Performance Program.....Costs v payout.

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Looks like the 2011 PRP year will end up at around $110 per point. So if you win a typical reg hunt or NtCh hunt, which averages about 15 at most of the half dozen clubs in our area, you will pocket about $165 for your $15 or $20 entry fee. You paid $25 to pay up your pup so one club level win nets you about $120 and for the rest of the dogs life, it's $165 minus entry fee and gas money. Around here, by the time you take one from nothing to Grand, you prolly netted enough to pay for that $500 pup.

I don't know what UKC plans for the future of this program, I have heard there are some changes coming, but I sure hope they don't mess it up too bad. Between PKC, Russ Meyer and and the Mojo 5000's floating around out there, us poor guys need a down to earth, cheap -to-play program for ourselves to participate in. I hope they leave it be.

THEY SHOULD'VE KEPT THE $ IN THE BANK THE 1ST 2 YEARS AND EVERYONE WOULD BE A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT HAPPIER!

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 02-29-2012 11:01 PM:

the reason most are down on any other KC is because they rarely IF EVER hunt them. The fastest growing KC right now is ACHA they are making a strong and awesome comeback. My hats off the the Real coon hunters kennel club. AND DON"T eve think they are not some getting SUPER RICH off your dogs in the ukc.
LOOK at the points trackman is racking up....Its all about the money where ever you go....

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Posted by B&LKennels on 02-29-2012 11:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I myself would like to see them up the cost to pay a dog up in the performance.

Not being smart but if you want to pay more go ahead a donate an extra 50-100. Like jim stated the way it is now us poor guy's still can afford to play .Again i am not being smart.

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Posted by Mark Pruemer on 02-29-2012 11:46 PM:

80% ==Dog owner

10%==Sire owner of Dog

10%==Breeder of litter

I think this is how it works.

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Posted by TQS_Kennel on 02-29-2012 11:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I myself would like to see them up the cost to pay a dog up in the performance.

I would thing a price increase would hurt the KC, being as everything else has gotten so expensive.

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Posted by JiM on 03-01-2012 12:00 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by amazingcursouth
the reason most are down on any other KC is because they rarely IF EVER hunt them. The fastest growing KC right now is ACHA they are making a strong and awesome comeback. My hats off the the Real coon hunters kennel club. AND DON"T eve think they are not some getting SUPER RICH off your dogs in the ukc.
LOOK at the points trackman is racking up....Its all about the money where ever you go....

Super Rich????
I have no idea how you define "rich" but I'm sure you can handle some simple math. I'm not sure how many points Trackman has but even if he racked up 100 points as a sire, that is 100 points x $110 per point times his 10% earnings means he gets a check for $1100 dollars. And I doubt anyone considers that super rich.

Posted by Travis Brown on 03-01-2012 12:46 AM:

This is such a good program they should be very careful about changing anything.

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Posted by GLANCY'S 7 MILE on 03-01-2012 01:24 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
I LIKE IT ....LIKE YOU SAID IT COST VERY LITTLE TO GET INTO BE A PUP OWNER OR STUD OWNER,ANY CHANGES MADE TO IT I HOPE ARE FOR THE GOOD......

I agree! The best program going!

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Posted by CWT on 03-01-2012 01:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Super Rich????
I have no idea how you define "rich" but I'm sure you can handle some simple math. I'm not sure how many points Trackman has but even if he racked up 100 points as a sire, that is 100 points x $110 per point times his 10% earnings means he gets a check for $1100 dollars. And I doubt anyone considers that super rich.

But doesnt Trackman have over 2000 pups on the ground. I am not sure how the PP works. I have read it and still not sure how it all comes together, So if he has over 2000 pups and let say 1000 of them comp hunt and all 1000 have 100 points doesnt Curt get 10% of each one of those hunted dogs? And if Trackman still hunts he will get his points earnings on top of that also. Am right or am I way out of it? I would like to learn this.

Posted by Jack Bingham on 03-01-2012 02:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by CWT
But doesnt Trackman have over 2000 pups on the ground. I am not sure how the PP works. I have read it and still not sure how it all comes together, So if he has over 2000 pups and let say 1000 of them comp hunt and all 1000 have 100 points doesnt Curt get 10% of each one of those hunted dogs? And if Trackman still hunts he will get his points earnings on top of that also. Am right or am I way out of it? I would like to learn this.

You are way off. The maximum points a dog can earn at any event is 2 points if a dog hit 20 points in a year that would be amazing. on average you would probably be looking at 10-15 points on a dog that is getting hunted.

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Posted by kayapellijed390 on 03-01-2012 03:36 AM:

10-15 points is way off. I took a dog from no wins to NiteCh with three wins towards grand. I only got 1.85 points. The program is good but I still think it has a few holes. I don't like that you don't get any points for wins at an rqe or a zone or a mini slam. As small as most of these hunts are getting you are lucky to get two full casts of nite chs. at a club hunt. Then you go to an rqe or qualifying slam, the only hunts around hear that might draw a few more dogs than normal and they don't pay for any of those wins. It costs a hundred bucks to nominate a stud for the performance program. Well that pretty much means if your stud isn't putting at least a hundred pups a year on the gound you are just pissing that money away. If your stud has a hundred pups a year and ten of them actually win a hunt the next year then you will only make ten bucks of profit. And that is if your dog has already been DNA profiled, if he hasn't add another $45 bucks to the cost. Last year the number one performance point earning dog in the country only earned 8.25 points. All of Trackman's (the stud whose pups won the most performance points) pups combined only won 186.225 points. By the way it took 138 pups to win that many points. Every time I look in the magazine the point value has dropped some more. The amount of money that the average dog will win will not even come close to covering the cost of the entry fees that the owner paid out that year. I think it is a good program and this is the second year that my stud has been nominated but in all reality I doubt I will ever see a return on that investment. I wish UKC could figure out a way to make the points worth at least a little more. Otherwise the average guys with the average studs will soon do the math and drop out of the program. Leaving only the trully big name studs with the owners who can afford to play this game.

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Posted by blake jones on 03-01-2012 04:19 AM:

I don't think the stud owners are paying them up in the program for the 10% payout. If yiou want to beed your female or even buy a pup, you would want it to be elgble for the performance program.
stud A is paid up in the proram but stud B is not. both hounds have what you are looking for in a stud dog. which one do you choose? most likely stud A.

Posted by josh on 03-01-2012 04:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by kayapellijed390
10-15 points is way off. I took a dog from no wins to NiteCh with three wins towards grand. I only got 1.85 points. The program is good but I still think it has a few holes. I don't like that you don't get any points for wins at an rqe or a zone or a mini slam. As small as most of these hunts are getting you are lucky to get two full casts of nite chs. at a club hunt. Then you go to an rqe or qualifying slam, the only hunts around hear that might draw a few more dogs than normal and they don't pay for any of those wins. It costs a hundred bucks to nominate a stud for the performance program. Well that pretty much means if your stud isn't putting at least a hundred pups a year on the gound you are just pissing that money away. If your stud has a hundred pups a year and ten of them actually win a hunt the next year then you will only make ten bucks of profit. And that is if your dog has already been DNA profiled, if he hasn't add another $45 bucks to the cost. Last year the number one performance point earning dog in the country only earned 8.25 points. All of Trackman's (the stud whose pups won the most performance points) pups combined only won 186.225 points. By the way it took 138 pups to win that many points. Every time I look in the magazine the point value has dropped some more. The amount of money that the average dog will win will not even come close to covering the cost of the entry fees that the owner paid out that year. I think it is a good program and this is the second year that my stud has been nominated but in all reality I doubt I will ever see a return on that investment. I wish UKC could figure out a way to make the points worth at least a little more. Otherwise the average guys with the average studs will soon do the math and drop out of the program. Leaving only the trully big name studs with the owners who can afford to play this game.

I nominated a male for just 2 pups and made my money back.

I also nominated another male for 1 pup that is now 4 months old, Im betting that will get a return also.

Rich Mans game??? What color is the sky in your world?

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Posted by kayapellijed390 on 03-01-2012 04:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
I nominated a male for just 2 pups and made my money back.

I also nominated another male for 1 pup that is now 4 months old, Im betting that will get a return also.

Rich Mans ogame??? What color is the sky in your world?

Maybe when the program first came out and the point value was much higher but according to last months Bloodlines the value for 1 point was only $106.?? so in order for you to make back your investment your pups would have had to win 10 points combined. Pretty dang tall order. since the number one dog in the country last year only won 8.25 points. My guess is the average dog enrolled in the program earns around 1.5 points per year. I think it was a pretty dang good deal back when the points where worth over $400 but now it is pretty tough to make back your investment unless you keep and campaign your own pups then you would get their money and the 10% the stud gets.

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