UKC Forums - split treeing! Is it that good for ya?

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-- split treeing! Is it that good for ya? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928310423)

Posted by medic135 on 03-25-2013 08:52 PM:

split treeing! Is it that good for ya?

Ive seen lots of dogs for sale and heard sires and dams descibed as split treeing or they love to split tree. i am not a pro coon hunter but ive been chasing dogs awhile and never comp hunted. I just was wondering if anyone sees this as a good selling point or a bad thing or think this is not even worth mentioning. let me know what you think.

Posted by tony.beals on 03-25-2013 09:12 PM:

SPLIT TREE

This is just my opinion, I both competition hunt and pleasure hunt also I'm 57, so if I am just fur hunting or pleasure hunting and hunting a couple of dogs together I would just as soon they stay together and tree together unless treed close, just my opinion though.

Now when I competition hunt the benifit of split treeing gives you an advantage and gains you points in the hunts.

When I was younger and in better shape split treeing while pleasure hunting didn't effect me and I enjoyed knowing that both my dogs were doing great.

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Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-25-2013 10:13 PM:

I like a dog that will split and stay but i don't want one that tries to be alone all the time in other words i want a dog that goes on when the others slick or if there's more than one coon but not one that gets to its self just because the others are treeing

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Posted by Jarrod Washburn on 03-26-2013 12:30 AM:

Jmo

Split,yes. Dead loaner,no

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Posted by medic135 on 03-26-2013 12:54 AM:

yeah i definatly wouldnt want one to slick tree just cause another dog was. and if there are two coons then i guess a dog that will split tree could get the one that the other dogs are not on. but seems to me if you advertise your dog to split tree alot you are either running dogs that are slick treeing alot or there are two coon pretty often that split up somewhere. ha maybe that happens alot for some people. it seems if you say your dog split trees alot or loves to split tree then that is to say your dog is independent but how independent. and seems like if he is trying to split tree and another dog beats him to the correct tree and there is only one coon then he will probably mess around trying to split tree until he is either the last one to the tree or he just moves on to find another coon and loses the points he could have gotten just by treeing on that tree. like i said not im not a comp hunter although i may start someday when i build up to a dog good enough to compete. and im not talking bad about anyones dog but over the past year i have noticed this advertised more and wondered if this was something i might misunderstand. thanks for the input!

Posted by Jordan120 on 03-26-2013 11:39 AM:

I like a dog that gets split treed and has the coon.

When they get split treed its gonna make ya or break ya in the hunts. If my dog split trees he better have the coon because its gonna put me in the lead or close to it

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Posted by Dwils on 03-26-2013 12:21 PM:

I like one alone a high majority of the time ... But with a loner ... You live by the sword and die by the sword . Give me a coon treer that trees every coon sitting up and your going to get mowed over every time if your hunting 100% loner

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Posted by Dirtdevil on 03-26-2013 01:39 PM:

It's only split treeing if both dogs have coon .... most split trees are one dog under a coon and the other is just wrong ... a slick or den isn't a split tree .

I rarely see that happen around here ... it's neat when it does , but the term has been stretched and twisted to accomidate fickle dogs and folks that would rather mis-label a mediocre dog than to find an actual accurate dog with the confidence to hold tree when other dogs are wrong.

Posted by Tom Jones on 03-26-2013 02:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dirtdevil
It's only split treeing if both dogs have coon .... most split trees are one dog under a coon and the other is just wrong ... a slick or den isn't a split tree .

I rarely see that happen around here ... it's neat when it does , but the term has been stretched and twisted to accomidate fickle dogs and folks that would rather mis-label a mediocre dog than to find an actual accurate dog with the confidence to hold tree when other dogs are wrong.

when your walkin in to them and theyre on seperate trees what do you call it? I know you check them dens as best you can too...............now just bein plain slick, thats another story lol

btw: If your hunting two good hounds and they dont split very often then you may just be huntin one good hound..........maybe

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Posted by Dirtdevil on 03-26-2013 02:05 PM:

I would only call em' split trees if two good hounds roll into a pair of coon or a feed area and strike together and end up split with two coon ... struck together but the track split.

If two dogs strike in different areas and take two different tracks and both have coon ... I don't call that split trees because nothing was split ... a split means something that was whole has been split.

Posted by Tom Jones on 03-26-2013 02:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dirtdevil
I would only call em' split trees if two good hounds roll into a pair of coon or a feed area and strike together and end up split with two coon ... struck together but the track split.

If two dogs strike in different areas and take two different tracks and both have coon ... I don't call that split trees because nothing was split ... a split means something that was whole has been split.

good point

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Posted by josh on 03-26-2013 03:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dwils
I like one alone a high majority of the time ... But with a loner ... You live by the sword and die by the sword . Give me a coon treer that trees every coon sitting up and your going to get mowed over every time if your hunting 100% loner

I agree.

A dog that gets by itself and is good about having a coon can win a majority of casts, but a quick coon tree'r will show him whats up real quick.

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Posted by Jordan120 on 03-26-2013 05:48 PM:

All of my hounds will get by thereself and that's the way I like them to do.

My hound knot will be by himself all night long he doesn't like another hound with him

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-26-2013 05:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
I agree.

A dog that gets by itself and is good about having a coon can win a majority of casts, but a quick coon tree'r will show him whats up real quick.

So when those quick ones aren't around what then?

There are thousands of followers and only a handful of leaders. Give me the leader any day and ill take my chances.

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Posted by Tom Jones on 03-26-2013 07:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
I agree.

A dog that gets by itself and is good about having a coon can win a majority of casts, but a quick coon tree'r will show him whats up real quick.

what if a guy has one that is both?

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Posted by Darrell Eads on 03-26-2013 08:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dirtdevil
It's only split treeing if both dogs have coon .... most split trees are one dog under a coon and the other is just wrong ... a slick or den isn't a split tree .

I rarely see that happen around here ... it's neat when it does , but the term has been stretched and twisted to accomidate fickle dogs and folks that would rather mis-label a mediocre dog than to find an actual accurate dog with the confidence to hold tree when other dogs are wrong.

Fickle / Mediocre

lol how about Dysfunctional , ANTISOCAIOL,, OR maybe there looking over their shoulder waiting on a butt kicking from their Master or another dog , Fear of being with another dog , How fun would it be to see a nascar race with one guy racing at a time ? When you turn dogs lose on a coon it should tree it , when you turn 4 of them lose on a coon lets see who can tree it the fastest , I do not allow my dogs to be me too dogs just be quick , they never get to chew on a coon they didn't tree first ,,, Medic you can be a completion hunter with either kind of dog , but look for speed quick strike and a quick tree dog that will stay treed when that dysfunctional dog is off trying to find a den or another coon

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Posted by josh on 03-26-2013 08:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So when those quick ones aren't around what then?

There are thousands of followers and only a handful of leaders. Give me the leader any day and ill take my chances.

I guess I need to further simplify for those that just dont quite understand ....

the "loner" is a dog that has a need to get away from the other dogs even if a legitimate coon track is struck closer to the cast.

The quick coon tree'r will have 125 on the close coon and probably at least another 75 with old "loner" or another 125 by itself.....either way, old "loner" is toast.

I just flat out find flaw in the thinking a dog should pass up a coon for any reason just to get by itself.

Sure, the "loner" will beat all the low end and most mediocre dogs.....but when he draws somthing with an extra gear, that has a desire to get under a coon quick, he WILL have his hands full.

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Posted by WillieBT on 03-26-2013 09:50 PM:

I agree with Dirtdevil on this one. A dog 300-400 yds away on a different coon is not holding near the pressure that dogs the split a track and tree 30-40 yds apart with coons.
Had it happen twice recently. 3 dogs stuck together and tree 2 coons 50 yds apart. Another night 3 dogs struck together, 1 goes straight about 400 yds the other 2 hang a right and go about 200 yds. All 3 are parked under separate coons & 2 are within 40 yds. of each other.
That doesn't happen in my area very often.

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Posted by Nat Thomas on 03-26-2013 10:14 PM:

If they are gone more than a minute or 2 they better be somewhere by themselves. 90% of the handlers who give their dog minus in a cast do so because they get an itchy trigger finger during a calling contest. Also, the big majority of dogs that take minus do so when they are packed up and putting pressure on each other. Keep em deep and lonely by themselves. Less pressure on the handler, less pressure on the dog.

How often do you draw a dog that trees every coon it comes across? Very very rarely. Majority of the time there is 2-3 dogs that pack up, either wall wallering out a track for an hour or talking each other into a slick tree. Ill take mine deep and lonely by itself with no pressure on the dog or the handler.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-26-2013 10:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
I guess I need to further simplify for those that just dont quite understand ....

the "loner" is a dog that has a need to get away from the other dogs even if a legitimate coon track is struck closer to the cast.

The quick coon tree'r will have 125 on the close coon and probably at least another 75 with old "loner" or another 125 by itself.....either way, old "loner" is toast.

I just flat out find flaw in the thinking a dog should pass up a coon for any reason just to get by itself.

Sure, the "loner" will beat all the low end and most mediocre dogs.....but when he draws somthing with an extra gear, that has a desire to get under a coon quick, he WILL have his hands full.

ME TOO ME TOO

The ones who have never owned a dead loner just don't understand the pure thrill and pleasure of knowing why we are scoring 2 or 3 dogs tree the loner will be sitting in there treed with a coon. The good ones anyway.

You can fight over 1st, 2nd, and 3rd tree all night, ill know what I'll be getting before even turning loose.

Posted by josh on 03-26-2013 11:00 PM:

How you can call a dog going on the card for 125 a majority of the time a "me too" is beyond me.

I fully understand why some guys want to hunt these "loners".

Its much easier to get first tree when you arent competing against anything.

Its much easier for a dog to be accurate when it can runt through the country and bush a hot coon.

Thats fine, you guys will win your share with that dog.

I guess i have seen better than that...

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Posted by Randy Howard on 03-26-2013 11:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by WillieBT
I agree with Dirtdevil on this one. A dog 300-400 yds away on a different coon is not holding near the pressure that dogs the split a track and tree 30-40 yds apart with coons.
Had it happen twice recently. 3 dogs stuck together and tree 2 coons 50 yds apart. Another night 3 dogs struck together, 1 goes straight about 400 yds the other 2 hang a right and go about 200 yds. All 3 are parked under separate coons & 2 are within 40 yds. of each other.
That doesn't happen in my area very often.

Thats what I consider Split also, you can pretty well shine your light on each tree. Have seen em as close as10 to 15 ft split with coons, and hold pressure, but most splits are like Willie posted, but mine would rather be in deep and alone most of the time and if not will be split..Darn dog! But heck they are just dogs, Right? Now the next time I go huntin he will pull

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Posted by medic135 on 03-26-2013 11:06 PM:

good thread

I guess i can see an advantage of split treeing a little in that you can get first on that tree. I also agree with josh that a dog shouldnt pass up a track just cause there is another dog running it. but either way i guess there are advantages. the other question is: Is that really an important selling point?

Posted by Randy Howard on 03-26-2013 11:10 PM:

I think it's a good selling point if it's true. Shows independance to me, not just backing or treeing because everything else is but must produce a coon also not just treeing jealous. jmo

Posted by Whordel on 03-26-2013 11:27 PM:

Different strokes for different folks. I've owned both types. Won some good hunts with my loner but he cost us more BIG hunts by being a loner. Was definitely a cast winner but couldn't never mustard up a big enough score to get the BIG win. Was always waisting precious time walking to him because he was "deep and lonely". Its a lot tougher especially down here in the mountains when hunting a loner in thin coons. He would tree with dogs if they struck within the first 5 minutes but if he didn't he would find a different zip code. I would take another one like him a heartbeat but not my fav type of dog.

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