UKC Forums - making the hunts and dogs better again

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Posted by georgef072007 on 02-23-2018 01:38 AM:

making the hunts and dogs better again

Just a few suggestions that I think need to be put in place.

1. All dogs hunt together under championship rules at all hunts and performance points count for all.

2. Nt. Ch and Registered dogs must be high scoring dogs at the hunt to get a Nt Ch win or registered 1st place.

3. YEP event points count for the youth handling the dog only and not toward any titles on the dogs.

4. All clubs less than 5 years old are dropped from UKC roles and remaining clubs are limited to no more than 5 hunts a year.

The first 3 changes would give the GRNts a reason to keep hunting and make putting a title on a dog a lot tougher than it is now. The fourth change would force the hunters to support the clubs that have stood the test of time and survived. fewer clubs and fewer hunts means more entries at the hunts that are left.

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Posted by kkgrandpa on 02-23-2018 03:02 AM:

Making hunts and dogs better

I cant find much fault with your thoughts.we got to do something quick.Were dying.
New clubs tagging trying to ruin existing clubs.0l0l o.j.

Posted by JiM on 02-23-2018 03:13 AM:

I have a feeling No.2 would cause a mass exodus to the other KC. But I'd love to be wrong about that.
No.3 would cause a significant loss of Youth Entries because they wouldn't have a dog to hunt.
Not sure No.4 would make much difference since none of the dozen clubs within 50 miles of here have been chartered less than 5 years.

But sometimes you have to do it wrong in order to arrive at the right way.

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-23-2018 12:18 PM:

I believed in a format back in the 80's that thrived because it created interest and gave more opportunities to win it was harder to beat 60 dogs than 6 so what if some got their titles easy not no easier than they are now.

1. If they would go to putting the hunt results back in the magazine where a person could track where and who was finishing these 15 month old wonder dogs in to Grntch might bring down some unwanted heat on some of those unscrupulous clubs that are set up just for that like a dog from tx being finished 6 states away at the same club that finishes a lot of dogs for a lot of people always from out of state. I would subscribe again.

2. I think it's time to set back for me and see what the registry does.

Tar

Posted by georgef072007 on 02-23-2018 12:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I have a feeling No.2 would cause a mass exodus to the other KC. But I'd love to be wrong about that.
No.3 would cause a significant loss of Youth Entries because they wouldn't have a dog to hunt.
Not sure No.4 would make much difference since none of the dozen clubs within 50 miles of here have been chartered less than 5 years.

But sometimes you have to do it wrong in order to arrive at the right way.

Well, Jim maybe I am wrong but these cheap easy titles and too many hunts are a problem and it needs to get fixed. Sometimes change hurts, and as far as the youth go, if they have a dog that their parents or friends want a title on they have a dog to hunt. Pretty sure the parents have or can find the same dogs, but will they do it for the kid and only the kid is the real question. As far as the number of clubs, even if the 5 years doesn't thin out the hunts cutting back to a maximum of 5 hunts a year will make a big difference. 12 clubs lose 2 hunts each is 24 less a year within 50 miles of you, you have 24 less nights to hunt so you have to go to the ones you have and can't pick and choose as much to get the one or two dog hunts that we are seeing so much of these days.

Posted by LoggyBayouBlues on 02-23-2018 01:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I believed in a format back in the 80's that thrived because it created interest and gave more opportunities to win it was harder to beat 60 dogs than 6 so what if some got their titles easy not no easier than they are now.

1. If they would go to putting the hunt results back in the magazine where a person could track where and who was finishing these 15 month old wonder dogs in to Grntch might bring down some unwanted heat on some of those unscrupulous clubs that are set up just for that like a dog from tx being finished 6 states away at the same club that finishes a lot of dogs for a lot of people always from out of state. I would subscribe again.

2. I think it's time to set back for me and see what the registry does.

Like Tar said! Plus do away with this Forum so the internet hunters have to go to a club to find out what is going on or subscribe to Coonhound Bloodlines to find out what is going on instead of this Board.

Tar

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Posted by novicane65 on 02-23-2018 01:52 PM:

Honestly offer pup casts. Doesn't sound like a big deal but in the other of it gets offered frequently. And you'll have more attendence by offering it. But I just don't care for the rules in hic and the bickering that takes place over a yellow piece of paper.

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 02-23-2018 02:00 PM:

UKC is a business right? Businesses put together a business plan to make money. If the don't make money they change the plan or they go out of business. Apparently UKC is doing well as they have had about the same plan for many years.

I personally think the Nite Ch degree along with the other KC's CH degrees are entry level degrees and easy to achieve. Even though in the other KC's you may be hunting against dogs of all levels. I don't see it very hard to win $500 on a dog for a Ch degree. Just like I don't see it hard to make a dog a Nt Ch.

But you know we need that entry level degree. I bet there are thousands of young people in school right now dreaming about a hunt this weekend they are taking their dog to. They plan on winning and enjoying the excitement it will bring to them and their parents.

Because I am old and don't think something is of value. It isn't fair for me to push my value system on a young person.

Right now there are hunts for anyone and everyone interested. I don't think the kid sitting in school dreaming about tonight. Thinks UKC is broke. I don't think all those headed to SETWD's think UKC is broke. UKC doesn't seem to think it is broke. What is broke, is these hunts are not coming to you. You have to get out and go to them. When you get old it is harder to do and easier to say. It ain't like it use to be.

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-23-2018 02:11 PM:

Bruce what's broke is me lol ! I need a sponsor ! You could write me off your taxes lol. This fixed income stuff is for the birds I bought Corey two dogs and he thinks we need more .............. Ain't happening because dads broke lol.

Tar

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-23-2018 02:39 PM:

numbers 2 3 and 4 sound like bad ideas.
if people want better hunts and better dogs figure out how to make honest hounds and handlers. its the biggest reason fellows don't participate in the hunts.
just ask a coon hunter why they don't attend the hunts.

Posted by Dan&Ann on 02-23-2018 03:08 PM:

Grand Nite Ch. degree

Go further with that degree. Put levels on it. After making a hound a Grand Nite Ch. then start the levels. After every 1st place win go up one level. Grand Night 1.....Grand Night 2......Grand Night 3 and so on for the life of the hound. Put no limit on it. Example... When Ole smokey dies at 13 yrs old his papers may read...Grand Night Ch. (14) meaning he won 14 hunts after obtaining his Grand Nite Degree.

What this would also do is keep better dogs in the Nite ch. Class making it harder to obtain Grand Nite Champion Degree. I would love to see how high some of these Grand Nite Champions could go....

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Posted by georgef072007 on 02-23-2018 03:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
numbers 2 3 and 4 sound like bad ideas.
if people want better hunts and better dogs figure out how to make honest hounds and handlers. its the biggest reason fellows don't participate in the hunts.
just ask a coon hunter why they don't attend the hunts.

Well, if you like the cheap, easy titles that don't mean anything then number 2,3 and 4 are terrible idea's for sure. If the dogs and hunters have to step up to more competition and can't run and hide at a 1,2 or 3 dog hunt you won't see anywhere near as many GrNts that can't tree a coon by themselves. As far as the Grand Nite 1,2,3 thing, under the current system that would be a joke as well. Old Blue made GrNt at 14 months and never saw more than 3 dogs at a hunt, now he is the only Gr Nt and he get's win after win at the same club with his handlers buddy judging him. About the same as the HTX fiasco from what I've seen.

Posted by JiM on 02-23-2018 04:48 PM:

George, I completely agree with you that their are too many clubs running hunts today. But I don't think cutting back on how many hunts a club can hold is the answer. That just reduces the clubs income. I think the better way to reduce the number of hunts is to pull the UKC charter from any club that cannot maintain a minimum average of entries per event over the course of the year. These clubs that send one cast of Reg and one cast of NtCh to the woods on a regular basis should not be hosting UKC events the following year.
Probably the root cause of these entries falling off so much is a basic change in society. The older generation is leaving the sport much faster than they are being replaced by the new generation. Lowering the number of clubs hosting events is really the only good answer to getting event entries back up to where we can at least send 3 casts to the woods in each class.
Getting the GrNtCh's to support the local level is total pipe dream, never gonna happen no matter what you offer.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-23-2018 05:11 PM:

Jim we still got a ton of hunters down here young and old you hold a brand x hunt they come out of the wood work the deal is basically you take that title put it in a frame and hang it on the wall it might still mean the world to me and you but it don't to them !! If I go to the big 4 ukc hunts a year and spend $4,000 that's a $1,000 a hunt entry and expenses what can I expect for my investment ? Plus a 14 he drive at least. I can spend $2,000 around here and if I get on a roll I might break even or make a little and have a good time doing it. That's what we are up against tightening up making it harder to win ain't the answer it's like every day you go out and cut 4 spokes out of your bicycle rim sooner or later it's not going to roll. The old format is the only answer unless you going to give more than a win slip and with low numbers the clubs can't even afford one trophy. Take somebody with more brains than I got to figure it out.

Tar

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-23-2018 06:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by georgef072007
Well, if you like the cheap, easy titles that don't mean anything then number 2,3 and 4 are terrible idea's for sure. If the dogs and hunters have to step up to more competition and can't run and hide at a 1,2 or 3 dog hunt you won't see anywhere near as many GrNts that can't tree a coon by themselves. As far as the Grand Nite 1,2,3 thing, under the current system that would be a joke as well. Old Blue made GrNt at 14 months and never saw more than 3 dogs at a hunt, now he is the only Gr Nt and he get's win after win at the same club with his handlers buddy judging him. About the same as the HTX fiasco from what I've seen.

i did say honest hounds and handlers.
make it tuff as you want to title a dog. world champion tuff. if it's not an honest win with an honest hound who cares. that is what the average hunter has figured out titles don't make them a coon dog.
the things you have suggested would just decrease turn outs at the hunts and not improve quality either. sorry if it hurts your feelings but that is how i see it.

Posted by Nathan Phenix on 02-23-2018 07:11 PM:

Who cares about titles if someone wants cheap title so what. This day in time you better try a dog no matter title before you buy or breed.

And far as club numbers down there is still lots good clubs around. But they are ran by people put in effort to have good club instead of complaining that it's someone else's fault they don't. If some the guys on here would try do something positive half as much as they complain they might be surprised by what happen at there local club.

And I get tired hear how it use to be by the same people on here all time. If you really came from back when things was different. You think you would learned make most out what you have instead complain about what you dont all the time.

Ya I can go to hunt close several nights a week. Buddy hunts, club hunts, benefit hunts, box hunts.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-23-2018 07:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Jim we still got a ton of hunters down here young and old you hold a brand x hunt they come out of the wood work....Tar

Is that true or did you just make that up? How many entries do y'all have in your local $30 PKC hunts? Before you answer, remember they show the entries in the back of the Prohound.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-23-2018 07:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Is that true or did you just make that up? How many entries do y'all have in your local $30 PKC hunts? Before you answer, remember they show the entries in the back of the Prohound.

Actually $150 12 dog non sanctioned filled in a week another nice thing about it supposed to be tomorrow night but we are flooded so we called everybody and postponed it till better whether.

Nathen we ain't got all the answers ain't blaming it on nobody just trying to make things work you got to give more oppertunities to win like the $$$ hunts or this younger bunch just ain't interested far as me it will be 5 o'clock somewhere that's the way I look at it.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-23-2018 07:49 PM:

Oh my goodness, you didn't answer the question but switched to something else. You would make a great politician. I looked in the Prohound myself and there are 3-6 dogs at the local PKC hunts that correspond to the local UKC hunts.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-23-2018 08:00 PM:

I didn't understand lol !! We don't have pkc hunts just chkc we had one had 21 because it was the end of the year race in December last month we had a $30 double header drew 4 dogs each round those are getting where there are to many to close we are going to have the red river rivalry at the end of the year where you have to win 4 cast in the same month to qualify and anything else we can dream up to create interest we are trying just can't afford to do it all at once.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-23-2018 08:04 PM:

Why don't you dream up some things to create interest in your UKC hunts?

Posted by yadkintar on 02-23-2018 08:20 PM:

I am trying but the stuff that makes them show up cost money and tar ain't flush with cash right now I have my first two hunt packets paid for which was $84 then I got $50 building rent $30 groceries and got to have change on hand and got $225 in the money bag if nobody shows up its tuff. I just am doing my best but if there is a $$$ hunt close they would rather go to them I am trying to get enough money built up to have a buddy hunt for a pair of lights they would come for that I figure I am just one good hunt away from rounding the corner of having a good club just trying to hang on until then.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-23-2018 08:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
but if there is a $$$ hunt close they would rather go to them.
Tar

I know that most on here believe that but I am having a hard time finding evidence to back that claim up. It looks to me like the ordinary money hunts don't draw any more entries than the ordinary UKC hunts. And the money for the money hunts comes from the hunters, not the local clubs or the Kennel Club. If that is the case, then just add $10 to the entry fee and pay that money to the winner. Or have a Calcutta and pay that money to the winner.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-23-2018 08:43 PM:

Lol your not 30 miles from headquarters like me !! I am surrounded lol.

Tar

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 02-23-2018 08:45 PM:

Tar lets say I agree with you and it pains me a little to say that. LOL. Non sanction hunts seem to being good. From there I will branch of into two different conservations.
First UKC or any kc has to deal with this. They are the businesses being affected. Doesnt seem like it is bothering them. Each has their piece of pie and they seem happy and I sure Allen and Todd will say their plates are full. How about the breed associations. They have the strangle hold on the rules. Maybe they should each put a committee together and see if they are comfortable with the face of coonhunting as it is today. I will say that the associations that are offering money to the world championship might be a step in the right direction.
Second thought is I keep hearing about cheap titles. What do titles mean to anyone. In the old days it meant everything. Grand nite a dog and advertise the dog and sell pups and breed the dog. Problem is once the internet came along and instant info on how most of these dogs were titled it took away from them being put on a pedistal and just read about in the magazines. Weekly now across the nation high tiltled dogs are being hunted in non santcion hunts against any and all competition. Todays coonhunters want to hunt and win. Pick up a few dollars along the way and not worry about titles. We plan on having a dog at a world hunt next month. Trust me we aint thinking about no title. The title doesnt change the dog one bit. The dog will be there for the money. If a person needs titles to validate what he is doing. He is looking at it wrong. If having a coonhound personally validates what he is doing for himself. Then titles will be accumulated.

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