UKC Forums - Heartworm and Lymes Disease The Billion Dollar scam

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-- Heartworm and Lymes Disease The Billion Dollar scam (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=442672)

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-08-2011 02:03 PM:

Heartworm and Lymes Disease The Billion Dollar scam

Thought you guys would like to read this. Very good articles!

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.co...tworm-scam.html

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.co...sease-scam.html

Posted by Bluedogman on 08-08-2011 02:09 PM:

I think this is probably Bovine Scatia!

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-08-2011 03:20 PM:

After just going to a new vet and having blood work done on my female he said she was postitive for heartworm and mymes disease.

I think that's funny becase NO test can be done to confirm lymes disease. If a test is ran it will come back positive everytime.

If a vet can't figure out what's wrong with a dog they will just say well I bet it's lymes disease!

They lead you to believe that heartworm is so common and your dog is doomed if it gets it but its very untrue. Many dogs live a healthy full life even with heartworms.

Posted by Buckshot on 08-08-2011 03:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1

I think that's funny becase NO test can be done to confirm lymes disease. If a test is ran it will come back positive everytime.

If I am not mistaken, a snap test done on a vaccinated dog could produce the false postive.

A Quantitative C6 test is what you would want to have done to test for Lyme Disease.

Posted by Bluedogman on 08-08-2011 03:51 PM:

I had a Lyme test done on myself one time at a hospital. Came back negative. Never had one done on a dog. I have seen several dogs with heart worms that died from it. I personaly think if they get them...and they will if not given preventive...that they will eventually die from them. Wont live a long life with them either.

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Posted by EerieEyes on 08-08-2011 04:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1

I think that's funny becase NO test can be done to confirm lymes disease. If a test is ran it will come back positive everytime.

They lead you to believe that heartworm is so common and your dog is doomed if it gets it but its very untrue. Many dogs live a healthy full life even with heartworms.

Where is THIS misinformation coming from?!

I have had dogs tested positive and dogs tested negative - not surprisingly, my coondogs all came back positive, my ancient basset hound that never goes anywhere is negative. It's a horrid disease but one that is surprisingly easily treated - testing can save a lot of heartache. Lymes leads to kidney failure, and I don't know of many dogs that can come out of that! Trust me, a very good friend of mine recently lost a VERY nice dog to Lyme

As far as heartworms go, I don't know how a dog could possibly live a "healthy full life" with spaghetti-like worms infilitrating their hearts... I don't think it's a terribly common disease, but definitely not one that should be left untreated!

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Posted by Bluedogman on 08-08-2011 05:46 PM:

I think he got this from the links he posted. I think heartworm disease IS very common here where we are. I would not be putting MY dogs' lives in danger by believing every bit of information some quack dreamed up or manipulated to suit his own fancy.

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Johnny Williams

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-08-2011 06:05 PM:

Johmmy, any part of the US where the temprature is over 67 F then yes your dog should be on heartworm medicine. But like any medicine we take it could have side affects on your dog.

Posted by EerieEyes on 08-08-2011 06:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bluedogman
I think he got this from the links he posted. I think heartworm disease IS very common here where we are. I would not be putting MY dogs' lives in danger by believing every bit of information some quack dreamed up or manipulated to suit his own fancy.

Sorry, I should've specified I don't think it's terribly common where I live, in PA - we have a LOT more Lyme than HW. Regardless, it's definitely a scary one, especially when prevention is so easy...

Posted by JiM on 08-08-2011 06:24 PM:

I don't know much about Lyme but I believe up here where I live, if you don't give your dogs monthly heartworm prevent, they WILL get heartworms. And I don't care what some terrier schmuck says about it.

The heartworm preventative that I use is as effective as anything currently available and costs me less than .40 cents per dog per month.

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Posted by Travis L Wilkison on 08-08-2011 07:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I don't know much about Lyme but I believe up here where I live, if you don't give your dogs monthly heartworm prevent, they WILL get heartworms. And I don't care what some terrier schmuck says about it.

The heartworm preventative that I use is as effective as anything currently available and costs me less than .40 cents per dog per month.

what are you using for heartworm jim?

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Posted by Bluedogman on 08-08-2011 07:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Johmmy, any part of the US where the temprature is over 67 F then yes your dog should be on heartworm medicine. But like any medicine we take it could have side affects on your dog.

I have news for you! The temp doesn't have to be above 67. I use heartworm prevention every month in the year. Have been doing it many, many years. I'm well aware of possible side effects.

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Johnny Williams

Posted by JiM on 08-08-2011 08:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clover Hounds
what are you using for heartworm jim?

Travis, I use .5 cc of Ivomec 1% sterile solution every month, year around. I actually draw up the .5 cc of Ivo and 3 cc's of pyrantel poamate which duplicates HeartGuard Plus. The pyrantel adds about .20 cents per month to the cost so it ends up being around .60cents per dog per month. 15 years ago I had a nice pair of beagles that I didn't give the prevent to and both ended up getting heartworms bad. Since then I have treated every dog I keep, monthly, year around and haven't had one test positive since.

Posted by calblu on 08-08-2011 09:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I think that's funny becase NO test can be done to confirm lymes disease. If a test is ran it will come back positive everytime.

There's a new test for Lyme:
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=434450

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 08-08-2011 09:24 PM:

Jim,

Is the pyrantel available at TSC like the Ivomec?

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Posted by JiM on 08-08-2011 10:06 PM:

Just Nemex which I refuse to buy. I get my Pyran 50 online.

Posted by Riverbottom Ron on 08-08-2011 10:26 PM:

HEARTWORMS AND LYMES DISEASE

I WOULDNT WANT ANY OF MY HOUNDS TO GET EITHER ,,,DOGS DONT LIVE GOOD LONG LIVES WHEN THEY HAVE EITHER ONE OF THEM,MANY YEARS AGO BEFORE IVERMEC AND PREVENTATIVES I LOST A COUPLE YOUNG DOGS DIE BEFORE 4 YEARS OLD AND AS FAR AS LYMES ,ONCE THEY GET IT ,I DONT THINK THEY ARE EVER THE SAME AND THEY NEVER GET OVER IT ,,,I MY SELF AM IN THE 3 RD STAGE OF LYMES DISEASE,IVE READ LOTS ABOUT IT SINCE I HAVE IT AND READ ABOUT DOGS HAVING IT ALSO,ITS NOT GOOD AND HUMAN OR ANIMAL YA NEVER GET OVER IT,,SO KEEP UP THE HEARTWORM PREVENTATIVE,,AND LYMES DISEASE TOO...HAVE A BLESSED ONE ,,FROM THE RIVERBOTTOM,,RON

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Posted by Jason Baldwin on 08-08-2011 10:58 PM:

We have lost several dogs to heartworms . One when i was a kid and the rest when I was grown and had my own dogs. We give the monthly heartworm pill now. And we pay dearly. 3 dogs. 3 pills a month. Comes out to about $21 a month total. EVERY single month. The bottom line is, all you guys that are giving horse and sheep and cattle pills for your dog's to stop heartworms are saving a WHOLE LOT of money rather than doing it the way I do it and paying the vet every month for pills. But , when your dogs get sick, either from heartworms themselves or from the pills your giving them, your on your own. The first thing that vet will tell you when you take that half dead dog into the vet is "sir why in the world were you giving horse pills to a dog anyway ????????????? " . In fact, there was a thread on here just about a week or two ago of a guy with that problem.

Posted by Jason Baldwin on 08-08-2011 11:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by EerieEyes
Where is THIS misinformation coming from?!

I have had dogs tested positive and dogs tested negative - not surprisingly, my coondogs all came back positive, my ancient basset hound that never goes anywhere is negative. It's a horrid disease but one that is surprisingly easily treated - testing can save a lot of heartache. Lymes leads to kidney failure, and I don't know of many dogs that can come out of that! Trust me, a very good friend of mine recently lost a VERY nice dog to Lyme

As far as heartworms go, I don't know how a dog could possibly live a "healthy full life" with spaghetti-like worms infilitrating their hearts... I don't think it's a terribly common disease, but definitely not one that should be left untreated!

we have had 3 dogs treated for heartworms by the vet. They had it bad. Coughing already but the dogs were still active though. Just coughing a bunch. 2 of them died within 2 weeks of the treatment. 1 lived a year but was never the same again after the treatment.

Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 08-08-2011 11:18 PM:

I have used Ivomectrin for years and never had a dog get heartworms. Bought one that had heart worms and treated her with very small doses of Ivomectrin for a week and then skipped a week and treated her again. She wore out faster then the other dogs but she was heartworm free. The damage they do when left untreated is terrible. Anybody who owns a dog should keep them on some type of preventative. Lymes is a different story. It is bad but more easily treatable according to my vet. Don't know but will take his word for it. I was actually told by my vet that Ivomectrin in the right dosage orally or injected is probably the most cost effective way to treat several dogs a month. 1/10 of a cc per 10 lbs. orally. Don't dilute, give it straight into the mouth. Most dogs that have taken it for years don't even curl their lips. The only thing about Ivermectin is some herding breeds can't tolerate it. I know German Shepherds can, I got an eight year old that has been on it since he was ten weeks old.

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 08-08-2011 11:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Jim,

Is the pyrantel available at TSC like the Ivomec?

I haven't seen it at TS but we have been buying it at Revival

http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/...antel-50mg.aspx

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 08-09-2011 02:56 PM:

From the Merck Veterinary Manual Online

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/i...m/bc/191513.htm

Dogs and Cats:
Ivermectin, selamectin, moxidectin, and milbemycin oxime may be used in dogs for the prevention of heartworm disease and control of GI roundworms. Many canine parasites are susceptible to ivermectin at the dosages used in other animals; however, because some dogs are adversely affected at these levels, ivermectin is used in dogs at only 6 �g/kg body wt, given at 1-mo intervals, to prevent development of Dirofilaria immitis , the cause of heartworm disease. At higher dosages (>100 �g/kg), some Collies are adversely affected by ivermectin. At a dosage of 0.5 mg/kg, PO, milbemycin oxime is used for prevention of heartworm infection and for treatment of hookworms, ascarids, and whipworms in dogs. Moxidectin is also effective for the prevention of heartworm infection at a dose rate of 3 �g/kg. The margin of safety of milbemycin and moxidectin in dogs, including those sensitive to ivermectin, appears to be similar to that of ivermectin.

The Differences in Febendazole (Safe-guard and Panacur) and Febantel (Drontal Plus)

Fenbendazole is a Benzimidazole Anthelmintic , Febantel is not a benzimidazole But is at a Metabolised State and its uses are the same as those of Fenbendazole ..

To make Drontal Plus ..

You would use "Fish Tapes" (Praziquantel) "Which is a Expansive Drug no matter where you can find it" , Pyrantel Pamoate "Very Cheep" drug and Fenbendazole (Safe-guard Goat Wormer) "Simi Cheep" ..

Nemex-2 (Total Rip Off)

Posted by JiM on 08-09-2011 03:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
We have lost several dogs to heartworms . One when i was a kid and the rest when I was grown and had my own dogs. We give the monthly heartworm pill now. And we pay dearly. 3 dogs. 3 pills a month. Comes out to about $21 a month total. EVERY single month. The bottom line is, all you guys that are giving horse and sheep and cattle pills for your dog's to stop heartworms are saving a WHOLE LOT of money rather than doing it the way I do it and paying the vet every month for pills. But , when your dogs get sick, either from heartworms themselves or from the pills your giving them, your on your own. The first thing that vet will tell you when you take that half dead dog into the vet is "sir why in the world were you giving horse pills to a dog anyway ????????????? " . In fact, there was a thread on here just about a week or two ago of a guy with that problem.

I'm not sure what horse pills you are talking about but if you look at the posted ingrediates on a package of HeartGuard Plus, you will find it is the ivermectin and pyrantel poamate. Look and see. The dose I suggested in my other post is the same as HeartGuard. The price is the only difference.
My vet is the one that gave me the info.

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 08-09-2011 03:40 PM:

One other thing ... If your pups have a Sever Case of Round Worms !!

The Day before you worm them Give them "Fish Zole" Very Cheep !!! 100 - 250mg tabs are $19.75 !!

I have lost a pup or 2 from round worms and they were'nt fully infested they just went into intestenal Shock and Intestional Bacterial Infection as the Worms Died ..

Metronidazole is an antibiotic that is used commonly to treat protozoal infections and anaerobic bacterial infections. It also has anti-inflammatory effects in the bowel. Metronidazole is bactericidal; it kills bacterial microorganisms by disrupting their DNA. It is absorbed rapidly from the GI tract, metabolized by the liver and excreted in the urine and the feces. Because metronidazole only has activity against anaerobic bacteria, it is used commonly with other antibiotics when it is used to treat mixed-bacterial infections. It is compatible with many other antibiotics including penicillin antibiotics, aminoglycosides and some cephalosporins.

Dogs and Cats
Metronidazole is used to treat protozoal infections in dogs and cats including Giardia, Entamoeba, Trichomonas and Balantidium. It also is used to treat anaerobic bacterial infections. Metronidazole has immune-modulating activity and may be prescribed to treat inflammatory bowel disease. It may be used to treat colitis caused by other antibiotics, periodontal disease (especially in cats), Clostridium perfringens enterotoxemia, tetanus, diarrhea of undetermined cause, pancreatic insufficiency (with small-intestinal bacterial overgrowth) and complications of severe liver-disease. Metronidazole may be used with
corticosteroids to treat inflammatory bowel disease or gum disease (gingivitis/stomatitis) in cats. Topical metronidazole gel is used to treat skin infections, such as feline chin acne.

Metronidazole usually is tolerated better if given with food. There is a wide variety of flavors and preparations made by compounding pharmacies to deal with the problems associated with the bitter taste. Because of the variety of uses for this drug, dose amount, frequency and duration of treatment vary widely.

Active Ingredients in Wormers

Pyrantel Pamoate : A very safe and effective ingredient to treat Roundworms, Hookworms and Pinworms in Dogs. Need to Dose a second or even a third time 2-4 weeks apart to eliminate all stages of the worms.. Found in "Nemex-2", "Drontal Plus", "Virbantel", "Strongit-T"

Piperzine : Effective against two types of Roundworms in Dogs and Cats For maximum effectiveness, must be administered at least 2 times 10-14 days apart .. Found in Anchor Piperazine Water Wormer, Happy Jack Kennel Wormer, Happy Jack Puppy Paste, Pipa-Tabs, Pipfuge, Purina Liquid Wormer, Sergeant's Worm-Away

Fenbendazole : A very Broad spectrum dewormer used in both Large animals and small .. In dogs, it is most effective against Roundworms, Hookworms, Whipworms and even Giardia bacteria Infections.
Treatment is once a day for 3 days in Puppys or Very Infested Adult Dogs, Normal worming is only once in Adults.. Found in "Drontal-Plus", "Panacur C" and "SafeGuard"

Parziquantel : The Drug of Choice for the Treatment of Adult Tapeworms Infection in Dogs. But will not Kill Tapeworm Eggs, so their is a potential for reinfestion. Repete treatmet is required on a reg. basis to kill Tapeworm Hatches .. Found in "Drontel-Plus", "Virbantel", "Droncit"

Ivermectin : Most commonly used as a monthly preventative for heartworms in Dogs and Cats. It is also effective against External Parasites such as Lice, Mange and Ear Mites

Posted by Two Toes on 08-09-2011 04:45 PM:

"DANG TICKS"

My puppies get wormed starting at two weeks like a lot of others do.

Our "Patch" male has been thru two shots of Lymes. Last year & this year. I think it has had a negative affect on him. Seems a bit goofy at times among other notable differences. Seems as healthy as he has been in a couple years at the present.

Not 100% sure if it has lasting effects that are a possability but I'ma wonderin? If any of ya'll have more experience that I do with it could you share your thoughts & findings? Would really appreciate it!

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