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-- I think this statement sums up breeding. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928526384)

I think this statement sums up breeding.

I think it was 2 years ago now Allen did an interview at the World Hunt or a Major hunt with several of the top dog men.
Russ Bellar was asked a questions about dogs reproducing.
His response was something like this.
He said he had bred something like 6 world champion females. Not one reproduced a world champion dog.

You get to the top, breed the best you have and by doing the best you can. There is no chance of repeating what you did with the offspring. Doesn't that just knock in the head a lot of breeding theories and dreams many have.

I think what a lot of people are missing is. You just have to enjoy the game. Play it to the best of your ability. If your game is just pleasure hunting around your farm with some friends or wearing out trucks traveling the country. Play the game and be part of it with the best dog you can. Try and move forward through breeding your dogs. But if something else comes along. Investigate it and own it if you can. If you can't own it. Just learn that there is improvement to be made and work towards it.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Moe, Larry and Curly.. LOL!!!! It was John Monroe, Lee Logan and Russ!

Past UKC World Champions (1978-Present)
2013: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Main Street John The Baptist
2012: WLDNITECH NGRNCH GRNITECH 'PR' Hannas Creek Feelin' Frisky
2011: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Wilcox' Thunder Top Gun
2010: WLDNITECH NGRNCH GRNITECH 'PR' House's Mr.Clean
2009: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Miami River Big D
2008: WLDNITECH NITECH CH 'PR' Rocky Creek Jess
2007: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Bellar's Janice Joplin
2006: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Split Creek History Quick
2005: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Bolden And Turpin's Insane Jane
2004: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Bate's Crytical Chuck
2003: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Little Wood's Scar
2002: WLDNITECH CH NITECH 'PR' Rock River Gap
2001: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' X Jr.
2000: WLDNITECH CH GRNITECH 'PR' Jimmy D's Handsome Hank
1999: WLDNITECH GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Hillside Treeing Kate
1998: WLDNITECH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Daniel's Duke
1997: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Loomacres Rocky MTN Jasper
1996: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Hannas Creek Mac Attack
1995: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' J&R Northern Buck II
1994: WLDNITECH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Charley Creek Terra
1993: WLDNITECH GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Tri Color Tom Tom
1992: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Cowles' Big River Jesse
1991: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Nelson's Radar
1990: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Tony's Wild Joey
1989: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Crawley's Louise
1988: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Kansas Sizzlin Heat
1987: NO PLUS POINTS ON FINAL CAST
1986: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Bellar's Pac-Man
1985: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Miller's Beaver L. Magic
1984: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Smith's Hillbilly Mac
1983: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Indian Creek Pride
1982: WLDNITECH GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Rock River Banjo
1981: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Lewis' Rebel
1980: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Fuller's Red Rooster
1979: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Mullins' Sugar Creek Rip
1978: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Loomis' Tom


I found this in the Archive. The only dogs I know of for Ukc Wch that produced another was Tri Color Tom Tom(Loomacres Jasper), I'm sure there might be another 1 but none that I know of. And Lynn is still hunting dogs out of Jasper. I know Duke isn't hunting much but he still has partnerships on dogs that carry Tom-Tom blood.

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Dogs

Rock River banjo sire won a world hunt I believe also the acha world hunt was the biggest and most prestigious hunt at one time

FACT if you make a cross and get good pups then that was a good croos if you don't get any good ones then that was a bad cross simple!!

Fact is, I had a guy call me back in 1988 or 89 and had a young male out of World Champion Pacman and World Champion Boggy Bottom Bonny. The man said he bought him as a pup, payed a premium price for him, this guy lived up above Pittsburgh in the Butler area but I can't remember his name but someone should know of him but its not that important to the story. He told me the dog was 14 months and wouldn't do a thing. I asked him a few questions about what he had done so far with him and gave him a few pointers on what to do and Bam! the dog took off and he couldn't be bought at any price, he had the dog till he died. Fact is, a lot of those World Champion females pups were in the same hands as this one and never got the right training resulting in the pup getting destroyed. These guys will never say that it was their fault the pup didn't make it, they just write it off as a bad cross.. The Real Fact is, Its very hard to put pups in the right hands. This is my explanation on the answer that was given by the Panel of Legend's... LOL!!!!!

Eddy is 100% right on putting dogs in the right hands for sure.

I think the biggest mistake here is thinking the next world champion is determined in the breeding pen. That is just one of many factors. I always figured that any world champion had at least 100 pups born the same year it was with as good or better coondog genetics but then the other factors come in.
1. The pup has to be raised by someone who will socialize it and give it plenty of running loose and challenging activities.
2. They must get to an experienced green pup trainer. One who is patient and know how to avoid setting a pup back.
3. Then they need to get to someone who is good at putting the finishing training on one to correct any problems.
4. Then they need to be put in the hands of an excellent handler and get a few breaks.
The chances of a talented pup getting to people that specialize in these areas at the right time in its life has a lot to do with the difference in a good coonhound that the owner and a few of his hunting buddies know and respect as a top hound or a nationally known hound that everyone knows about.

__________________
Travis Brown
brownt@capetigers.com
573-579-3853
Home of :
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Peggy 4/1991-1/2002
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Little Peg 6/1998-3/2008
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Haley 8/2002-11/2013
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Taylor 3/2005-11/2017
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Rotten 10/2008-2/2013
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Midge 12/2010-1/2021
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Jessie 4/1/14-3/5/2024
Gr. Nt. Ch. Browns Lilly 5/2019-

quote:

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Originally posted by Clovis A Nailor
Eddy is 100% right on putting dogs in the right hands for sure.

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Your not going to make a big impact in the dog world without deep pockets anymore. You win a major hunt in a month nobody remembers it. You keep going and going and spending and spending and maybe done some winning and then one day you got an old dog that won some hunts and you wallet is a lot lighter.


Tar

Here are the links to the videos for the Bellar, Logan & Monroe interview.

https://youtu.be/H6MYFa9GOhE

https://youtu.be/VfZK18SiYbA

https://youtu.be/ArJcLOTmdEc

https://youtu.be/DBfvw5tV_EE

__________________
Visit the Treeing Walker Association's Website at www.TWBFA.com

For some reason I think Lewis' Rbel was out of Mullin's Sugar Creek Rip. Both won the UKC World Hunt.

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
Past UKC World Champions (1978-Present)
2013: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Main Street John The Baptist
2012: WLDNITECH NGRNCH GRNITECH 'PR' Hannas Creek Feelin' Frisky
2011: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Wilcox' Thunder Top Gun
2010: WLDNITECH NGRNCH GRNITECH 'PR' House's Mr.Clean
2009: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Miami River Big D
2008: WLDNITECH NITECH CH 'PR' Rocky Creek Jess
2007: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Bellar's Janice Joplin
2006: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Split Creek History Quick
2005: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Bolden And Turpin's Insane Jane
2004: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Bate's Crytical Chuck
2003: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Little Wood's Scar
2002: WLDNITECH CH NITECH 'PR' Rock River Gap
2001: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' X Jr.
2000: WLDNITECH CH GRNITECH 'PR' Jimmy D's Handsome Hank
1999: WLDNITECH GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Hillside Treeing Kate
1998: WLDNITECH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Daniel's Duke
1997: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Loomacres Rocky MTN Jasper
1996: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Hannas Creek Mac Attack
1995: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' J&R Northern Buck II
1994: WLDNITECH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Charley Creek Terra
1993: WLDNITECH GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Tri Color Tom Tom
1992: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Cowles' Big River Jesse
1991: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Nelson's Radar
1990: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Tony's Wild Joey
1989: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Crawley's Louise
1988: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Kansas Sizzlin Heat
1987: NO PLUS POINTS ON FINAL CAST
1986: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Bellar's Pac-Man
1985: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Miller's Beaver L. Magic
1984: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Smith's Hillbilly Mac
1983: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Indian Creek Pride
1982: WLDNITECH GRCH GRNITECH 'PR' Rock River Banjo
1981: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Lewis' Rebel
1980: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Fuller's Red Rooster
1979: WLDNITECH NITECH 'PR' Mullins' Sugar Creek Rip
1978: WLDNITECH GRNITECH 'PR' Loomis' Tom


I found this in the Archive. The only dogs I know of for Ukc Wch that produced another was Tri Color Tom Tom(Loomacres Jasper), I'm sure there might be another 1 but none that I know of. And Lynn is still hunting dogs out of Jasper. I know Duke isn't hunting much but he still has partnerships on dogs that carry Tom-Tom blood.

---

__________________
Visit the Treeing Walker Association's Website at www.TWBFA.com

I haven't reviewed the interview but I think they were talking about the females side... meaning a World Champion female reproducing a World Champion..?

I just watched the first of those 4 videos. John Monroe said three things that stood out to me. First was, accuracy wasn't something we even talked about in the 70's and 80's. When a dog treed it was because he had a real live raccoon above him. Second he didn't want a dog that would have to fight to stay treed. Third he didn't approve of a man whipping his dog for coming into a tree where other dog s were treed. What happened to that way of thinking?

__________________
Donald Bergeron

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
I just watched the first of those 4 videos. John Monroe said three things that stood out to me. First was, accuracy wasn't something we even talked about in the 70's and 80's. When a dog treed it was because he had a real live raccoon above him. Second he didn't want a dog that would have to fight to stay treed. Third he didn't approve of a man whipping his dog for coming into a tree where other dog s were treed. What happened to that way of thinking?

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What about Z3. He never won a world hunt but produced 5 that did. Has there ever been a dog that sired as many big hunt winners as him?

quote:

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Originally posted by N Williams
What about Z3. He never won a world hunt but produced 5 that did. Has there ever been a dog that sired as many big hunt winners as him?

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
I just watched the first of those 4 videos. John Monroe said three things that stood out to me. First was, accuracy wasn't something we even talked about in the 70's and 80's. When a dog treed it was because he had a real live raccoon above him. Second he didn't want a dog that would have to fight to stay treed. Third he didn't approve of a man whipping his dog for coming into a tree where other dog s were treed. What happened to that way of thinking?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Trueblood85
Sounds like he approved of real coon dogs to me. Never been to a competition hunt, although I'd like to, but not if those aren't the values that win competition hunts.

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__________________
Visit the Treeing Walker Association's Website at www.TWBFA.com

Zeb3 was a REPRODUCER! I think he produced more World Champions, Truck Winners and More Platinum Champions then any other stud so far. Three wasn't a World Champion but he should have been or should I say could have been, He was one of the best dogs in the country when he was being hunted and produced dogs just as good.... Over powering track dogs that would tree and here's the part I like.. They would show you the Meat, Grease, Coons, Goods, Bacon or whatever look'in down at ya! That's what made them Big Winners.....

quote:

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Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
Zeb3 was a REPRODUCER! I think he produced more World Champions, Truck Winners and More Platinum Champions then any other stud so far. Three wasn't a World Champion but he should have been or should I say could have been, He was one of the best dogs in the country when he was being hunted and produced dogs just as good.... Over powering track dogs that would tree and here's the part I like.. They would show you the Meat, Grease, Coons, Goods, Bacon or whatever look'in down at ya! That's what made them Big Winners.....

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Another great post Mr. Bruce!

Several others have already nailed it, but if you have doing this for more than 5 min you know it is WAYYYYY more important who's hands a pup gets in than what it's pedigree says.

IMO, pedigree does matter when it comes to looks and style of hunting, but when it comes to that pup making a dog that consistently trees coons and can compete in the hunts, its all about the person that raised and trained them - period.

__________________
Thanks!
Brad McDaniel
owner - Flint River Outdoors, Cordele Ga

quote:

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Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
[B]Zeb3 was a REPRODUCER! I think he produced more World Champions, Truck Winners and More Platinum Champions then any other stud so far. Three wasn't a World Champion but he should have been or should I say could have been, He was one of the best dogs in the country when he was being hunted and produced dogs just as good.... Over powering track dogs that would tree and here's the part I like.. They would show you the Meat, Grease, Coons, Goods, Bacon or whatever look'in down at ya! That's what made them Big Winners..... [i/B]

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Why did he only produce 600 pups?

Fast Eddie,

I see where you inquired about a female about two years ago...seems she had zeb3 breeding top and bottom...did you buy her?

Also, do these dogs have the heart to go one on one with a full grown coon?

Just wondering if they would make good hog dogs...I need a dog that can find the hot end of the tracks quickly and then stick with a runner until stopped...Stopping a runner quickly the better...thanks

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...