UKC Forums - score this

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Posted by CROOKED RIVER on 04-17-2012 03:00 AM:

score this

I was at a club meeting tonight and heard a ?, we had 2 different answers.
4 dog cast, all dogs struck. dog a, b, c are treed. 5 min's are up and while heading to tree dog d is treed on same tree. tree is circled , what is dog d score?
And what if coon is seen?

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Posted by Tyler Hatcher on 04-17-2012 03:04 AM:

Delete tree circle strike I think

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-17-2012 03:07 AM:

Handler error. D would be struck with a line under it but since D was treed after the 5 his handler is automatically declaring his dog split. Line stays through his strike but D gets 125- on the tree. Coon being seen makes no difference since he was shut out. Still 125-

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Posted by longshot on 04-17-2012 03:24 AM:

To get your correct answer , you need to state if dog D was struck in before the 1st dog was treed , or after ? Also was Dog D "declared" treed or was he just treeing when you arrived ?

The timing of all this makes the difference in the correct judgement..

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Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Posted by longshot on 04-17-2012 03:28 AM:

If D was struck in and coon seen , he gets minus strike and nothing on tree. He was late , after the 5.

If he was struck in and you circled the tree , you circle his strike only... No tree points though ..

If there was off game in the tree , he would get next available and minused strike AND tree if this is an open reg cast... Or scratch the whole bunch in a NTCH cast.

Confusing ?

__________________
Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-17-2012 03:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by longshot
To get your correct answer , you need to state if dog D was struck in before the 1st dog was treed , or after ? Also was Dog D "declared" treed or was he just treeing when you arrived ?

The timing of all this makes the difference in the correct judgement..

you're right I just assumed he was treed in.

Posted by longshot on 04-17-2012 03:33 AM:

One other thing... if dog D was declared treed AFTER the 5 expired , then Hoosier Man is right above... He is automatically declared at a split and he better be split when you get there , or he's minused...

There a hundred ways to get minused or scratched , but only one way to get them +++++'s.

__________________
Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Posted by JiM on 04-17-2012 05:34 AM:

Re: score this

quote:
Originally posted by CROOKED RIVER
I was at a club meeting tonight and heard a ?, we had 2 different answers.
4 dog cast, all dogs struck. dog a, b, c are treed. 5 min's are up and while heading to tree dog d is treed on same tree. tree is circled , what is dog d score?
And what if coon is seen?

"All dogs struck" indicates all dogs were struck on the card before any dog was called treed. "d treed on same tree" indicates the dog just covered late, I don't see where the dog was declared treed. That being the case, with tree circled, dog D gets circled strike points.

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Posted by summermusics on 04-17-2012 06:17 AM:

Handler error.

Posted by matt2 on 04-17-2012 01:25 PM:

I'd say dog 'd' is the one I want on my leash. Took his time worked the track slow and careful. Sounds like dog 'd' is to high class to be wasting his time in a greasy competition hunt.

Posted by JiM on 04-17-2012 01:54 PM:

Now matt, think about what you are saying. The tree was circled which means it very well may have had a coon or it may have been slick, we don't know. But your dog D that you think so highly of was there treeing on it just like he other three were. The only difference is that it took him more than FIVE MINUTES after the first dog to get there! Now you may call that taking your time and working slow but I would call that grounds for a major dose of correction. Pleasure or comp, if they can't get there any faster than that, they better not get here at all.
I'll stick with my greasy comp dog, thank you.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-17-2012 02:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by matt2
I'd say dog 'd' is the one I want on my leash. Took his time worked the track slow and careful. Sounds like dog 'd' is to high class to be wasting his time in a greasy competition hunt.

If you have a dog that likes to "take his time" you better expect to take alot of strike minuses.

Posted by coondogbean on 04-17-2012 03:30 PM:

How can you circle strike on dog that arrives after the 5 on a circle tree? strike should be delete

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-17-2012 03:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coondogbean
How can you circle strike on dog that arrives after the 5 on a circle tree? strike should be delete

In PKC it would be not in UKC. Same way that you circle the strike for a dog coming into a tree after the judge that is scored slick or off game is seen. Strike is not deleted it is circled.

Posted by GA DAWG on 04-17-2012 11:08 PM:

It should be changed and it should be deleted in my book.

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Michael Ghorley

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-17-2012 11:37 PM:

Someone please explain rule 5g to me and when it is applied?

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Posted by JiM on 04-18-2012 12:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
It should be changed and it should be deleted in my book.

It hardly makes a bit of difference in UKC. I don't care if it is circle or delete, it SHOULD be minus if it was up to me. But UKC says circle so I go with that.
It make a big difference in PKC because many PKC casts are won or lost on circle points. I can't ever recall circle points making a difference in the outcome of a UKC cast.

Posted by JiM on 04-18-2012 12:26 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Someone please explain rule 5g to me and when it is applied?

If a dog is shutout on strike AND the dog covers the tree it was shutout on (that is the tree treed on by the dog that shut you out), that dogs strike points are deleted. However if the dog never covers the tree it was shutout on, then it's strike points remain scoreable.

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-18-2012 12:30 AM:

Thanks Jim.

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Posted by longshot on 04-18-2012 01:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
If a dog is shutout on strike AND the dog covers the tree it was shutout on (that is the tree treed on by the dog that shut you out), that dogs strike points are deleted. However if the dog never covers the tree it was shutout on, then it's strike points remain scoreable.

It might be worth noting that dog D's points would be deleted ONLY in the scenario Jim laid out above... If he was not shut out , then his strike points would be circled.

I'd say a HIGH percentage of casts are scored WRONG in these scenarios... The only good thing as Jim said, is that it usually doesn't matter with delete or circle points anyway affecting the outcome of the cast.

But it is always good to know and understand how this works so you will know when the time comes.

__________________
Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 04-18-2012 01:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by matt2
I'd say dog 'd' is the one I want on my leash. Took his time worked the track slow and careful. Sounds like dog 'd' is to high class to be wasting his time in a greasy competition hunt.

never wanted a 4th nothing

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Posted by CROOKED RIVER on 04-18-2012 01:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
If a dog is shutout on strike AND the dog covers the tree it was shutout on (that is the tree treed on by the dog that shut you out), that dogs strike points are deleted. However if the dog never covers the tree it was shutout on, then it's strike points remain scoreable.

what happens to the tree points? is he awarded and minused?

__________________
Jim Rollins 352-895-1464

NITECH 'PR' B.H. NITE TIME DANDY DIXIE

Posted by GA DAWG on 04-18-2012 02:03 AM:

What if Im shutout on tree. We go to recast. Mine don't bark run the 8 and it catches my dog. Who was shutout on strike. I remember a big debate on this yrs ago. They said then you couldn't minus the dog. Did they fix that Jim or do you remember it??

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Michael Ghorley

Posted by jabrown on 04-18-2012 02:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
What if Im shutout on tree. We go to recast. Mine don't bark run the 8 and it catches my dog. Who was shutout on strike. I remember a big debate on this yrs ago. They said then you couldn't minus the dog. Did they fix that Jim or do you remember it??

Rule 3(d) Dog(s) that are shut out (not struck before first dog is declared treed)
must still be declared struck. They are eligible for tree points if they are
declared treed within the five minutes. If they are at tree shut out on when
judge arrives, strike points are deleted. For all other situations they are
accountable for their strike points.

I would think that this would fall under "all other situations", and they would be acountable for their strike.

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Posted by jabrown on 04-18-2012 03:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by CROOKED RIVER
what happens to the tree points? is he awarded and minused?

Depends on how the tree was scored. If dog that is shut out is treeing but not declared treed when the judge arrives, and tree is plussed, shut out dog recieves no tree points and delete strike. If slick or off game, awarded next available tree points, then minuse them tree points, delete strike.

__________________
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
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