UKC Forums - Going back to the same tree?

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-- Going back to the same tree? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=369308)

Posted by Rough Northern on 08-10-2010 06:46 PM:

Going back to the same tree?

If a dog goes back to the same tree do you have to wait the 5 minutes?

UKC
PKC
AKC

Is it no, yes, yes?

Posted by Maniac on 08-10-2010 06:53 PM:

Re: Going back to the same tree?

quote:
Originally posted by Rough Northern
If a dog goes back to the same tree do you have to wait the 5 minutes?

UKC
PKC
AKC

Is it no, yes, yes?

in ukc no. pkc akc yes

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Posted by thebigcat454545 on 08-10-2010 09:18 PM:

I have never hunted pkc yet, but i thought if a dog goes back to tree for first time you could pull him and re cut??? 2nd time you get minused. am i correct?

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 08-10-2010 10:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by thebigcat454545
I have never hunted pkc yet, but i thought if a dog goes back to tree for first time you could pull him and re cut??? 2nd time you get minused. am i correct?

PKC and AKC if a dog is pulled off the same tree 3x it will be scratched.

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 08-11-2010 03:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billme94
thats to many

thats why the training should be done at home.

Posted by jculler8 on 08-11-2010 07:20 AM:

I think this is a good topic for a RULE change. I've seen a couple, not many, in hunts that went back to the same tree WAY TOO MANY TIMES and messed up the whole cast.

The name of the game is to see who can tree the most coon the fastest, not the same coon 18 times! lol

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 08-12-2010 12:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham
PKC and AKC if a dog is pulled off the same tree 3x it will be scratched.

the guide is scratch if he dont have more than 1 feeder bucket

Posted by Okie Dawg on 08-12-2010 12:55 AM:

That is why a lot of them move after every coon. A lot of there dogs won't recast.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 08-12-2010 01:00 AM:

and anything not there is scratch who wants to wait on a 2nd
dog

Posted by Dwils on 08-12-2010 02:22 AM:

to my knowledge in ukc if a dog returns to same tree you must still strike and declare your dog treed and wait the 5 minutes , unless it is obvious and all handlers agree it is same tree??

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Posted by Dwils on 08-12-2010 02:27 AM:

i train and hunt my dogs to recast. if they cant recast. i dont want them. it takes a dog with alot of heart and drive to gun in there and tree that 2nd and 3rd coon in the same woods..

thats where they seperate boys from men is by scratching them for returning!!

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Posted by Joey Donelson on 08-12-2010 03:15 AM:

Personally I think if a dog goes back ONE time they should be scratched from the cast. If a dog can't be cast from the tree it's not ready for the hunts.

Posted by l.lyle on 08-12-2010 04:18 AM:

I had a squirrel dog go back on the tree and found another squirrel up it. Never had that happen with a coondog. While I am shooting one out the other usually opens his eyes.

How many go backs in UKC and what's the penalty? Seems like they all get pulled off once, plus or blank. They go back on the tree and get pulled off. What's the penalty, minus points or what? They go back again and when they get pulled off that's 3X and scratch. I don't see where PKC says they can go back on the tree 3 times, which that would mean pulling them off the tree 4 times.

Posted by Tyler Benedict on 08-12-2010 07:46 AM:

The rule in PKC and AKC says a dog handled on the same tree 3 times will be scratched.

1. The first time the dog is declared treed. (when you originally score the tree)

2. The first time the dog goes back to the previously scored tree. You still must strike and tree your dog and wait the 5 minutes.

3. The second time the dog goes back to the previously scored tree you still have to strike and tree your dog and wait the five minutes. If dog is found to be on the previously scored tree this time(the third time it has been handled at this tree) dog is scratched.

Basically it is a delay of cast rule.

In UKC a dog can go back to a previously scored tree an unlimited number of times without penalty.

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Posted by l.lyle on 08-12-2010 08:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Benedict
The rule in PKC and AKC says a dog handled on the same tree 3 times will be scratched.

1. The first time the dog is declared treed. (when you originally score the tree)

2. The first time the dog goes back to the previously scored tree. You still must strike and tree your dog and wait the 5 minutes.

3. The second time the dog goes back to the previously scored tree you still have to strike and tree your dog and wait the five minutes. If dog is found to be on the previously scored tree this time(the third time it has been handled at this tree) dog is scratched.

Basically it is a delay of cast rule.

In UKC a dog can go back to a previously scored tree an unlimited number of times without penalty.

Thank you! that's what I was thinking. So for the people that said 2 times after the tree was too many- but they take a scratch . Then why not Ukc rules require a strike and tree call and that a minus on that Same old tree and the dog could minus hissownself OUT even quicker than the 3X and you're out, especially if the first time was a minus. But if the first was a circle, and they went back and waited the five and shined and the coon has yet to arrive then the original circles turn to minus (because the liars with circles has done had another chance to show somebody the coon)( such as fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice , shame on me). He's accumulated anuffa lyin points to be out. You see what I mean?. LOL

Posted by Tyler Benedict on 08-12-2010 12:06 PM:

All registry rule as far as I know...
Once a tree has been scored once it cannot be scored again.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 08-12-2010 03:42 PM:

So in ukc do you strike, tree and wait the five minutes. Looks like you would have to to make sure it was the same tree before you walk into it.
One more thing. Does anyone know if there are any proposals on adding a rule that you have to walk a certain distance from the tree before you recast at AO this year?

Posted by GA DAWG on 08-12-2010 04:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
So in ukc do you strike, tree and wait the five minutes. Looks like you would have to to make sure it was the same tree before you walk into it.
One more thing. Does anyone know if there are any proposals on adding a rule that you have to walk a certain distance from the tree before you recast at AO this year?

You for sure have to strike them back in on or before the 3rd bark..You dont have to tree them or wait the five if majority think they are on the same tree in ukc. I dont care a thing about walking before re casting..Mines a lot less likely to come back with me standing there..They might remember the scoldings they have had for it in the past

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 08-12-2010 06:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
You for sure have to strike them back in on or before the 3rd bark..You dont have to tree them or wait the five if majority think they are on the same tree in ukc. I dont care a thing about walking before re casting..Mines a lot less likely to come back with me standing there..They might remember the scoldings they have had for it in the past

I walk mine out from under the tree there on just so they know they are finished with that tree. I was just wondering if there was a rule change being discussed becouse I though I heard it mentioned on here. I wouldn't mind seeing one though becouse some want to walk a half mile to recast becouse they know there do is going to go back. Who decides when to cut them again?

Posted by Tyler Benedict on 08-13-2010 03:42 AM:

PKC When you pull dog(s) off tree you must walk 1 minute in the direction the guide wishes to hunt

AKC When you pull dog(s) off tree you can cut loose right there or walk 1 minute in the direction the guide wishes to hunt.

UKC You can walk a reasonable distance from the tree and recast.

In my oppinion it is the JUDGE'S decision what is a reasonable distance from the scored tree. If the judge is a fat boy like me he surely won't make you walk too far! lol

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Posted by Doug Bowers on 08-13-2010 03:46 AM:

Re: Going back to the same tree?

quote:
Originally posted by Rough Northern
If a dog goes back to the same tree do you have to wait the 5 minutes?

UKC
PKC
AKC

Is it no, yes, yes?

YES,

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 08-13-2010 03:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Benedict
PKC When you pull dog(s) off tree you must walk 1 minute in the direction the guide wishes to hunt

AKC When you pull dog(s) off tree you can cut loose right there or walk 1 minute in the direction the guide wishes to hunt.

UKC You can walk a reasonable distance from the tree and recast.

In my oppinion it is the JUDGE'S decision what is a reasonable distance from the scored tree. If the judge is a fat boy like me he surely won't make you walk too far! lol

Be surprised how far a fat boy can walk if his dog won't recast. LMAO
Thanks Tyler

Posted by Tyler Benedict on 08-13-2010 04:05 AM:

Okie Dawg-Some judges will make you walk farther than is reasonable. That's when you say come on. Enough is enough and hopefully the other cast members agree.

I've seen a couple dogs that it didn't matter if you walked them a half mile from their last tree they'd still go back. I kinda figure if they're that bad about going back I shouldn't have much trouble beating that one! Especially if mine is doing what it's supposed to do! lol

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 08-13-2010 04:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Benedict
Okie Dawg-Some judges will make you walk farther than is reasonable. That's when you say come on. Enough is enough and hopefully the other cast members agree.

I've seen a couple dogs that it didn't matter if you walked them a half mile from their last tree they'd still go back. I kinda figure if they're that bad about going back I shouldn't have much trouble beating that one! Especially if mine is doing what it's supposed to do! lol

Mine would be more likely to get lost and go back to the same tree if I walked them that far away. LOL
I like to just walk them out from under the tree and send them after another one. I had my pup play follow the leader back to the same tree in an ACHA hunt though.
My bigest trouble is the only time they get in the woods with sinners is when I'm in comp. and can't smite them hip and thigh. LOL
Not that they don't mess up on there own some but would like to have a crap dog to put them in the woods with some time.

Posted by Tyler Benedict on 08-13-2010 05:39 AM:

Okie Dawg, Well by god, me and you oughta go hunting some time!! Lol I've got plenty of crap dogs!!! lol

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