UKC Forums - scratching offense?

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-- scratching offense? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=302707)

Posted by Redbone Chic on 09-27-2009 06:38 PM:

scratching offense?

Last night out pleasure hunting, decided to bring along a score card and have a little backyard competition, well red dog got treed and while searching the tree, the other dog was being chased by a coyote, so i didn't want anything to happen to her so i called her back in to me so she wasn't in danger of being hurt. After having her come in to me the coon was spotted and points were awarded to red dog. Now in a real nite hunt would it be a scratching offense to call in a dog that is in possible danger or would your points just be minused?

Also in a nite hunt, dogs were treed and then they all went quiet, then two dogs continued treeing and the other two were gone, everyone goes to tree to handle treed dogs and handler spots his dog across river trying to get back to him. He trys to call her in to him but she didn't come, and after scoring the tree the rest of the cast decided to scratch him for handling his dog. Is that a scratching offense? or what would that situation be handled like?

Also after scratching handler and dog, he asks how he can get his dog from across the river, and the judge and guide and another cast member left him and another guy who also got scratched in the woods and didn't tell them how to get out of woods or back to club or anything, just left. would the whole cast be scratched for that or how would the correct way to handle that be?

Thanks for any replies, just trying to understand the rules on scratching a little better. Thanks

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Posted by Buckshot on 09-27-2009 06:57 PM:

That is pretty sorry if you guys were out pleasure hunting and no one told the guy how to get to his and left him.

You guys took the backyard competition to a new level.

Is that just a scenario or did that really happen on that pleasure hunt?

Posted by masterd1976 on 09-27-2009 07:15 PM:

Well for starters it don't sound like I'll be pleasure hunting with you. As far as the coyote goes, they are in every woods you go to. I don't consider that to be any danger. That would like trying to say fences or trees are a hazard.

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Posted by Todd Miller on 09-27-2009 08:18 PM:

If your dog is in danger then scratching should not even be an issue. right? and yes if you call your dog in to protect him or handle him then yes he would be scratched. For leaving someone in the woods putting them in danger then yes If I were the MOH then that cast would be scratched.

Posted by on 09-27-2009 08:33 PM:

You CAN call your dog off a track if you are willing to take minus on your strike points. Rule 17...."Judges are not to allow hunters to call dogs off a trail without counting those points minus." So the judge can allow you to catch your dog off a track if you are willing to take your minus. If you handle your dog off a track without the judges consent, that is a scratch. If a judge tells you to handle our dog at a split tree and you come back to the cast leading your dog, you are scratched.

Posted by roughcreek on 09-27-2009 08:36 PM:

i wish some of you would learn to read !! dumb butts he said in a nite hunt !!

Posted by Todd Miller on 09-27-2009 08:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by roughcreek
i wish some of you would learn to read !! dumb butts he said in a nite hunt !!

What are you talking about? It said backyard hunt, just trying to practice.

Posted by Buckshot on 09-27-2009 08:42 PM:

I have no idea if he is referring to real nite hunt or the fake "nite hunt" there were doing.

I read it, but it's not real clear............kinda like the rules that were applied in the final cast of the world hunt last night that TK deleted from the play by play for some reason.

Posted by Todd Miller on 09-27-2009 08:48 PM:

2nd paragraph it says nite hunt. Okay were what you would call dumb butts then, sorry.

Posted by on 09-27-2009 08:55 PM:

Hey Buckshot, that was really kinda interesting how that was all handled last night....referring to the non-working dog rule. Most of us recall a very drawn out discussion about applying that rule the day before we left for Tenn. My buddy, who started that thread on the non-working dog rule made it a point to find Allen and Todd first thing after confirming his entry Thursday afternoon. Thay discussed it and both Todd and Allen made it perfectly clear to him that his interpretation was wrong and that in fact, you start a new set of strike points after two coon are seen reguardless of anything else. My buddy didn't agree but accepted their interpretation of the rule, no problem. Then darned if they didn't turn around and do exactly the opposit when it came up in the finals and according to Todd, Al was there and backed it up.
High incredible!!!

Posted by Redbone Chic on 09-27-2009 08:58 PM:

no Todd Miller you got it right, the second paragraph is a REAL nite hunt cast that happened and yes the first paragraph is a practice nite hunt getting dogs and handlers ready for competition.

Last night was a practice hunt and my dog was being chased down by a coyote, i called her because she is a pup and she is VERY small, a coyote can be dangerous since i've seen many dogs get ripped up by them. I know they are in every woods and i don't call my dog in for them i only called her in cause it was chasing her. I saw it.

Thanks for the replies from people who understood what i was asking.

Posted by Redbone Chic on 09-27-2009 09:00 PM:

Buckshot, The guy left in the woods was on a real nite hunt cast not pleasure hunting.....

Posted by thomas earl on 09-29-2009 12:57 PM:

THE WAY YOUR BRUSHING UP ON YOUR SCRATCHING OFFENSES YOU MUST BE WANTING TO RUN A PURINA RACE

Posted by Redbone Chic on 09-29-2009 08:16 PM:

I have no intension on running the purina race. I'm a kid trying to learn the rules better since my friends and i have both been scratched for reasons i wasn't sure about.

Posted by thomas earl on 09-29-2009 10:59 PM:

sorry redbone chic i meant that as a joke and think its good you are taking the time to learn the rules and ask questions if i offended you i appologize best of luck too you

Posted by jculler8 on 09-30-2009 01:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Hey Buckshot, that was really kinda interesting how that was all handled last night....referring to the non-working dog rule. Most of us recall a very drawn out discussion about applying that rule the day before we left for Tenn. My buddy, who started that thread on the non-working dog rule made it a point to find Allen and Todd first thing after confirming his entry Thursday afternoon. Thay discussed it and both Todd and Allen made it perfectly clear to him that his interpretation was wrong and that in fact, you start a new set of strike points after two coon are seen reguardless of anything else. My buddy didn't agree but accepted their interpretation of the rule, no problem. Then darned if they didn't turn around and do exactly the opposit when it came up in the finals and according to Todd, Al was there and backed it up.
High incredible!!!

THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM HERE!!!!

BUNCH OF PEOPLE WITH POWER... TOOTIN THEIR HORNS IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS!!!

HOW CAN YOU TRUST AND BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ OR WHAT IS TOLD TO YOU OVER THE PHONE OR FACE TO FACE?

CAN WE PLEASE GET AN EXPLANATION?!?!

...or is that foul ground???????

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Posted by jculler8 on 09-30-2009 01:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
I have no idea if he is referring to real nite hunt or the fake "nite hunt" there were doing.

I read it, but it's not real clear............kinda like the rules that were applied in the final cast of the world hunt last night that TK deleted from the play by play for some reason.

IT WAS DELETED BECAUSE IT MAY HAVE CAUSED THE BOARD TO GO DOWN!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Posted by Redbone Chic on 10-01-2009 02:20 AM:

thomas earl, no offense taken at all! just wanted to let everyone know the reason why i want to know some scratching offenses.

Posted by Emily on 10-01-2009 04:16 AM:

Alex
Normally, if there is a danger to the cast, a timeout would be called. Of course, not everyone agrees on the degree of danger--some people worry about roads more than others, some people worry about coyotes more than others, etc. In reality, in the woods, the degree of perceived danger is often inversely related to the number of points the handler stands to lose if time out is called. Just remember that no win is worth losing a dog over. If you need to withdraw your dog to keep it safe, don't hesitate, and don't let anyone second guess you.

As for stranding people in the woods with their dog stuck across the river, thats clearly unsportsmanlike behavior. That was outrageous and I'm sorry you witnessed such a thing. Things sometimes happen that way when its close to the deadline, but that doesn't make it right. At the very least, the guide should come back to help after the judge (the same person in this case?) or someone else runs the card back to the clubhouse.
I don't know how big or how difficult to cross the river was, but the guide should've, at the very least, given him some advice as to whether it was possible to drive around, or whether the river was shallow enough to cross on foot, or maybe where there was a boat stashed. And a guide is NEVER supposed to leave people in the woods, scratched or not. Stuff like that sometimes happens between friendly competitors as a practical joke, and there are certain competitors that are so annoying that they get minimal help. Always carry a compass, look for landmarks, etc. just in case, but that kind of thing is very unusual in competitive hunts. The MOH shouldn't have let a guy that would do such a thing be the judge. At most clubs, the troublemakers are well known in advance. This is not a club you want to hunt at again!

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Posted by Redbone Chic on 10-02-2009 02:58 AM:

thank you Emily for your reply!

Posted by on 10-02-2009 04:12 AM:

Coyotes are everywhere. You will never see the day when any KC will allow a howlling coyote to get you a timeout. Not if you are following the rules. That would open up so much room for manipilation that it would destroy the credibility of the hunts.

Posted by jculler8 on 10-02-2009 04:24 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Coyotes are everywhere. You will never see the day when any KC will allow a howlling coyote to get you a timeout. Not if you are following the rules. That would open up so much room for manipilation that it would destroy the credibility of the hunts.

like people stategically placing coyote calls in the woods... or people to HANDLE dogs in the woods???

Posted by Joe S. on 10-02-2009 04:59 AM:

Time Out Interfence everything deleted.

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Posted by Redbone Chic on 10-02-2009 05:33 AM:

IT WAS JUST A PLEASURE HUNT! we were not actually trying to make it official it was mainly just for fun. Brought the card along just to try to learn the rules better. I know coyotes are every where and i don't really care they are there, i was only worried about the pup i was hunting since she is so tiny. Normally the dogs i hunt are huge and can clearly take care of themselves. Thanks to the people who answered my question as to what a scratching offense would be and not criticizing me about a coyote....

Posted by Okie Dawg on 10-02-2009 10:29 AM:

Red Bone chick give it up. You have said it was a pup and said you even saw the yote chaseing it 2 or 3 times. They just read the part they want to I guess. There are yotes around here that will kill an old hound. There is a male yote out on one of the places I hunt that will stand and fight the land owners yote hounds if he doesn't have 3 or more on it. To move some of the packs of yotes that have been ran a lot you better have a pretty good pack of dogs.
Might be your pup got to close to a yote bitchs pups. Another good way of getting your pup killed. We have some pretty good sized yotes here. You done the right thing. When in dought call it out.

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