UKC Forums - Why is it as soon as a blue female looks up for 1st time

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Posted by rance56 on 07-13-2015 01:23 AM:

Why is it as soon as a blue female looks up for 1st time

The owner already starts thinking of studs to breed her too. Our breed needs more guys interested in just hunting than trying to be a breeder.

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Posted by msinc on 07-13-2015 04:48 AM:

They don't want to be a breeder...they just want the money!!! It's like the old saying, "I thought I wanted a job, but then I realized I just wanted the paycheck..." The sad part is they don't get much money out of it either. I have a very nice, well bred female in my kennel right now. I lucked out and am very proud of this dog, she makes almost no mistakes. She is 18 months old. Goes hunting, drives a track, has a really nice loud male like voice, hard, lock down very accurate, almost never miss treed dog, and has no problem doing it by herself. Broke off of junk {knock on wood, been about 6 months} and handles pretty nice...I have absolutely zero plans any time in the future to breed her at all. I do not want to have to give away a litter of puppies and go in the hole doing it.

Posted by BigRiverlilCoon on 07-13-2015 08:24 AM:

hunting

I agree Rance

Posted by Vic Stoll on 07-13-2015 11:24 AM:

Re: Why is it as soon as a blue female looks up for 1st time

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
The owner already starts thinking of studs to breed her too. Our breed needs more guys interested in just hunting than trying to be a breeder.

Times are constantly changing. The hustle and bustle of today's world must have some sort of bearing on things. A person who hunts 3 nights a week is a person who hunts more than the vast majority, myself included. What is mind boggling to me is amount of folks who won't even hunt a dog by itself. It is rare to even see a young dog advertised for sale that has been hunted by itself. Even if a cross does get made, and the majority of the pups end up running and treeing an easy coon before a year of age, the label "proven" or "successful" is tagged on the cross with absolutely no regard ever placed on how any of the dogs finish out.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. There is no right or wrong. All a person can do is seek out other people of like mind when it comes to hunting and breeding these ole blue hounds.

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Posted by Casey Bigelow on 07-13-2015 04:39 PM:

I got a call the other day wanting me to breed ZERO to their female(s) so they can export the pups to China... What the heck?????.. I politely explained by standpoint on that issue and how that would impact Zero's future offspring report and kindly denied the offer...

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Posted by drummerblue on 07-13-2015 11:43 PM:

pups

Difrent strokes for difrent folks this is still a free country at the moment even though it is looking pretty sick

Posted by recon on 07-14-2015 12:57 AM:

In my opinion one of the biggest problems in the bluetick breed is that not enough females get hunted to see what type of coondog they are, before being bred.

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Posted by damon shivers on 07-14-2015 02:19 AM:

females

But when you do hunt the female finish to Gr and kill 200+ coon a season place in mayor hunts all over country people still will pick pups from females and male that don't hunt or aren't proven in hunts!Or they say to much when you ask $350 for a pup perm. Performanced and sired by top stud.They then buy a pup from nontitled parents and not performances for $250 blows my mind!

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Posted by rockybottomblue on 07-15-2015 12:57 PM:

Damon is right

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Posted by southernthunder on 07-15-2015 01:40 PM:

Re: females

quote:
Originally posted by damon shivers
But when you do hunt the female finish to Gr and kill 200+ coon a season place in mayor hunts all over country people still will pick pups from females and male that don't hunt or aren't proven in hunts!Or they say to much when you ask $350 for a pup perm. Performanced and sired by top stud.They then buy a pup from nontitled parents and not performances for $250 blows my mind!

This is true!

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Posted by southernthunder on 07-15-2015 01:50 PM:

Re: Why is it as soon as a blue female looks up for 1st time

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
The owner already starts thinking of studs to breed her too. Our breed needs more guys interested in just hunting than trying to be a breeder.

Lol I've seen people breed pups not knowing how their female would finish out and sure didn't know what traits they had. It is silly! Just about every male that makes nitech gets put up for stud without ever having sired a litter to know what traits they reproduce. I guess it takes all kinds

Posted by byrd, lance on 07-15-2015 04:28 PM:

To me

The key is people with similar goals working together to breed the traits they perfer to succeed in the way they like. That seems to me to produce hounds that are capable of winning in the hunts or treeing coon hides for the pleasure hunters. Buying and training randomly produced hounds is even more of a crap shoot. The females are very important in reproduction. I for one am not into brood females at all. Good point Rance and other good points were brought up too. JMO

Posted by everett on 07-16-2015 02:31 AM:

Two sides to a creek

That all is true, how ever, you never see any post on here about stud owners breeding any female that someone will bring to them, what's good for the goose is good for the gander....Gerald

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Posted by rance56 on 07-16-2015 05:16 PM:

I guess my point is when you start breeding dogs it takes away from you being able to concentrate on just hunting one an making it the best it can be. Usually you end up with way too many young dogs an none of them get hunted correctly or hard enough. Especially in today's age where we got so much going on with work an family. We are coonhunter first an foremost let's try to make our mark in the woods an not the breeding pen. I think our breed would be further along we would have better dogs an we would do more winning Thanks to all those that replied

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Posted by southernthunder on 07-16-2015 05:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
I guess my point is when you start breeding dogs it takes away from you being able to concentrate on just hunting one an making it the best it can be. Usually you end up with way too many young dogs an none of them get hunted correctly or hard enough. Especially in today's age where we got so much going on with work an family. We are coonhunter first an foremost let's try to make our mark in the woods an not the breeding pen. I think our breed would be further along we would have better dogs an we would do more winning Thanks to all those that replied

I sure agree with you on this! I've been guilty of having too many young dogs and not giving them the time they really needed. its hard when you raise your own litters and want to know if what you are doing is right or wrong without keeping several of the pups and hunting them yourself. I found out you can't rely on others to hunt a litter and give an honest chance though.

Posted by southernthunder on 07-16-2015 05:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
I guess my point is when you start breeding dogs it takes away from you being able to concentrate on just hunting one an making it the best it can be. Usually you end up with way too many young dogs an none of them get hunted correctly or hard enough. Especially in today's age where we got so much going on with work an family. We are coonhunter first an foremost let's try to make our mark in the woods an not the breeding pen. I think our breed would be further along we would have better dogs an we would do more winning Thanks to all those that replied

Posted by Gary Roberson on 07-21-2015 02:41 PM:

I agree that if I have a good female, why put her on the shelf to raise a litter of pups???? If she is really good, I want that dog in my pack every time I go to the woods. Unfortunately, I have to breed a female every now and then in order to restock my pack and my hunting buddies. While demand for my puppies is strong, I sell very few to folks that I don't know. I have never made a profit raising and hunting hounds and never expect to. I look at my hounds as an expensive hobby.
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Posted by Cry Tough Blues on 07-24-2015 02:52 AM:

I like Gary's thinking --breed what you hunt and hunt what you breed.

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Posted by Bayin'Blues on 07-30-2015 10:17 PM:

Everyone that coon hunts wants to create their own lineage of hounds at some point... That's why they look at breeding their females so soon. The thought of hunting pups out of a pup that you spent countless miles and hours into gets folks going. I agree that folks should hunt their females harder to see what traits that they could produce, but it's a crap shoot either way when you breed them. There is no way to know if they will throw their likeness if you hunt them or not and that could go either way, meaning reproducing coon treeing fools or a pile of duds. I'm not advocating brood females or breeding females too early and what not, just saying that either way you slice it you dont know what they will throw.... Here's a question I was asked before, if Jet V was never hunted and owned by a little old lady in a sub division, would he still reproduce? It really got me thinking....

On the other hand if you do your research, and breed coon dog to coondog your odds are better at reproducing something that you will be proud to take to town.

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Posted by rance56 on 07-31-2015 04:05 PM:

i dont believe everyone that coon hunts wants to create their own lineage, especially not in the walker breed. they want to win and win big in alot of cases and dont want to get bogged down by raising pups and constantly messing with young dogs.

to each his own, but when someone hunts an inferior dog just because it is out of "his stuff", that is where the issue is. and folks can lie to themselves, but i see it all the time, and been guilty of it myself a time or two.

some folks need to stop knocking around with thier own stuff hoping to make it a nite or grand nite an thinking that validates what they are doing is working and they have something. in todays ukc low night hunt numbers, it isnt validating anything.

just my opinions

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Posted by Bayin'Blues on 07-31-2015 06:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
i dont believe everyone that coon hunts wants to create their own lineage, especially not in the walker breed. they want to win and win big in alot of cases and dont want to get bogged down by raising pups and constantly messing with young dogs.

to each his own, but when someone hunts an inferior dog just because it is out of "his stuff", that is where the issue is. and folks can lie to themselves, but i see it all the time, and been guilty of it myself a time or two.

some folks need to stop knocking around with thier own stuff hoping to make it a nite or grand nite an thinking that validates what they are doing is working and they have something. in todays ukc low night hunt numbers, it isnt validating anything.

just my opinions

So I guess $KC and @KC C$KC are more respectable places to title a hound? I enjoy all formats of competition coon hunting but in my opinion, UKC hunt wins, especially, at the higher level are more prestigious.... Hunt numbers in general are down though, at least around here. Not near as many folks hitting the woods around here like they use to.

I agree with you on your comment about the vast majority of Walker guys, but alot of them also do a heap of breeding themselves as well. That's why they out number us. A good buddy of mine in Missouri has been doing his thing with Walker females for a while... Since I've known him he's Produced some fine titled hounds that he raised and trained himself.

Where the Walker guys have it together is they aren't scared to go breed to the winning dogs. Most of the time we wont breed to a dog that's winning just because of the way he's bred. I'm as guilty as anyone on that. It's sad but no matter what Bluedog finally ends up winning the world, the only dogs that will be bred to him or her will be the ones that were going to be bred to them anyway...

In regards to folks hunting their own stuff just for the sake of doing it... well that's a different story I suppose... lol..

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Posted by rance56 on 07-31-2015 07:31 PM:

the issue with ukc titles,is guys just want to get that title and be done with the dog, and then they can sit bac and say my dog is a grand nite. in pkc, folks arent realling chasing a title. they are most likely hunting something that they plan on continuing to hunt, and you arent going to continue to hunt something that losses alot more than it wins. In UKC some are ok with casue if they go enough, they will everntually get that title and ukc doesnt decipher wether it took 8 hunts or 80 hunts to do it.

very few hunt enough, have the time to enough, or have the knowledge/expereince enough in the woods and breeding pen to have thier own line of dogs that are top shelf generation after generation.-MYSELF INCLUDED

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Posted by Bayin'Blues on 07-31-2015 07:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
the issue with ukc titles,is guys just want to get that title and be done with the dog, and then they can sit bac and say my dog is a grand nite. in pkc, folks arent realling chasing a title. they are most likely hunting something that they plan on continuing to hunt, and you arent going to continue to hunt something that losses alot more than it wins. In UKC some are ok with casue if they go enough, they will everntually get that title and ukc doesnt decipher wether it took 8 hunts or 80 hunts to do it.

very few hunt enough, have the time to enough, or have the knowledge/expereince enough in the woods and breeding pen to have thier own line of dogs that are top shelf generation after generation.

That makes sense about the other registries... I haven't thought of it that way.

I guess I better quit now trying to hunt my own stuff then.. Cause I sure dont have the knowledge/expereince in the woods or breeding pen to be making any more crosses and Ill load the .22 when I get home and start over!

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Posted by southernthunder on 07-31-2015 07:54 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bayin'Blues

Where the Walker guys have it together is they aren't scared to go breed to the winning dogs. Most of the time we wont breed to a dog that's winning just because of the way he's bred. I'm as guilty as anyone on that. It's sad but no matter what Bluedog finally ends up winning the world, the only dogs that will be bred to him or her will be the ones that were going to be bred to them anyway...

its sad but true!

Posted by rance56 on 07-31-2015 09:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bayin'Blues
That makes sense about the other registries... I haven't thought of it that way.

I guess I better quit now trying to hunt my own stuff then.. Cause I sure dont have the knowledge/expereince in the woods or breeding pen to be making any more crosses and Ill load the .22 when I get home and start over!

not sure why you are taking personal. but if its the cats meow we can go hunting an give an honest report on here is ya like?

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