UKC Forums - What to breed to opinions?????

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Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 05:18 PM:

What to breed to opinions?????

Ok guys I'm just curious as what others would do???.. I have a about 18 month old pup that has brains, likes to get alone a lot, could care less most the time what another dog does, she will do her own thing. She Hunts good, can work a cold track, started quick, minds good, tone broke, more times than not first strike dog, and fast on track... Ok here is the tricky part once she puts it up... She will bark very little to NONE on tree.. She will not leave the tree if a dog is is with her... Never singled out....But meets me off the tree when I come in then go back and then nothing.... She is the most track minded dog I have ever seen she LOVES running track. I have tried every trick in the book but nothing has worked... She was jumped onto 2 times as a pup on tree and I'm pretty sure this is the reason for this. My question is what should I breed her to that may give me a all around pup out of them?.... Or should I breed her at all am I asking for more headaches on down the road???... She has everything I like to see but no go on tree....She has 3 world champs in her pedigree and is all grand but her mother....

Posted by HOBO on 01-13-2015 05:39 PM:

I wouldn't consider breeding her until she is treeing.

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 01-13-2015 05:43 PM:

Find out if any of her relatives have that trait. Start with her siblings, and then check out the parents. After that aunts and uncles then move on to grandparents. You want to make sure that it really isn't genetic. That is where I would start.

Bottom line is if a dog doesn't suit you well enough that you would want another just like it, then don't breed it.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 01-13-2015 06:09 PM:

Just go buy a pup

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Posted by JiM on 01-13-2015 06:29 PM:

"Never singled out"......care to explain your purpose in that? Sounds like quite posssibly some training defects apply here.

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Posted by jimbob_walker on 01-13-2015 06:32 PM:

Not trying to be mean, but if you have to get on here and ask what you should breed to you shouldn't be breeding at all. This is the reason there are so many crappy walkers out there. There are pups for sale on here all the time. Buy one of those and try again. Your dog has majors faults that if genetic can be passed to every pup in that litter just adding to the junk that is already out there. You are not going to fix the pups by breeding her to anything. When you breed black to white you get some black and some white,but very rarely do you ever get grey. And there is no need to burden yourself with trying to get a litter of pups going when the dog you have at home is still in need of a lot of work. A dog should have all the tools to be a coondog, not just some.

Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 06:41 PM:

From what I have been told A lot of pups out of the same bloodline are doing great. All start fast and have good brains. I have heard of a few that are having the Treeing issue. But have came out of it... But I really don't think she will... I have done everything I know to do... Released coon and let her watch them climb and she will bark on them and tree. Take her hunting and same Ol story few barks to nothing on tree. She has some BIG time hounds in her pedigree... Her dad is a ACHA world champ... Pedigree is ate up with big name hounds...She goes back to Houses lipper on fathers side... I don't want to sound like I'm bashing any bloodline so I don't know whether to list any close breeding on her or not... She has got what I like other than the tree issue. I was just thinking with all the tree being bred into today's hounds. Where she is track minded she may throw good all around pups... All the big names are there... She knows how to work a track and work a cold track up..Just looking for some advice really... As stated above I thought about just buying another pup and starting over but I don't want to waste all this time again for nothing.....I if I breed her sure to God at least 1 will make it. Rather than paying that much for a pup and start over again....and again....

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 01-13-2015 06:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hootowlman if I breed her sure to God at least 1 will make it. Rather than paying that much for a pup and start over again....and again.... [/B]

Why have an entire junk litter for one good pup.

You want to save money? Go buy a young dog that is running and treeing their own coon. Spend a little now, and save a lot later. Pups are expensive to train and feed. Just buy one with all the hard work done on it

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Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 06:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jimbob_walker
Not trying to be mean, but if you have to get on here and ask what you should breed to you shouldn't be breeding at all. This is the reason there are so many crappy walkers out there. There are pups for sale on here all the time. Buy one of those and try again. Your dog has majors faults that if genetic can be passed to every pup in that litter just adding to the junk that is already out there. You are not going to fix the pups by breeding her to anything. When you breed black to white you get some black and some white,but very rarely do you ever get grey. And there is no need to burden yourself with trying to get a litter of pups going when the dog you have at home is still in need of a lot of work. A dog should have all the tools to be a coondog, not just some.

.

I agree with you the only fault she has is treeing.... The rest is there... Only problem is most of the pups that are being breed and sold for decent money are the same bloodline or have most of the same hounds in pedigree... Just really asking is it possible she would throw good pups? Always had hounds but really never did the whole breeding thing. So I don't know what to expect... You will never know if you don't ask?? Thanks,,, I leaning toward what you have stated also... But was just curious..... I just thought take a track minded dog and breed may not end up with slick treeing IDIOT!!! Lol that all... Looking for what other think.... I

Posted by HOBO on 01-13-2015 06:50 PM:

Yes its possible she would throw good pups, but its also possible she throws more just like she is. You read post after post on here about today's hounds not stacking up to yester years... In my opinion breeding these type of females is the problem.

Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 06:52 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Why have an entire junk litter for one good pup.

You want to save money? Go buy a young dog that is running and treeing their own coon. Spend a little now, and save a lot later. Pups are expensive to train and feed. Just buy one with all the hard work done on it [/QUOTE

I really don't mind doing the hard work... But thanks for the great advice. I really hadn't thought about it like that... May end up doing just this...

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 01-13-2015 06:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hootowlman
I really don't mind doing the hard work... But thanks for the great advice. I really hadn't thought about it like that... May end up doing just this... [/B]

If you think about the Gas, dog food, papers, vaccinations, wormer, and man hours, $1500-$3000 is pretty cheap for a nice young prospect

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Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 06:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Yes its possible she would throw good pups, but its also possible she throws more just like she is. You read post after post on here about today's hounds not stacking up to yester years... In my opinion breeding these type of females is the problem.

I agree... Was just wanting other opinions also. Everyone is scream about no track power and slick treeing idiots... Well man have I got the track power.....LOL.... That's all mine wants to do... Was just curious as to if you take one like that and cross to whatever could you end up with a pup like yester year... best of both worlds..... Just made me wonder....

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 01-13-2015 07:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hootowlman
I agree... Was just wanting other opinions also. Everyone is scream about no track power and slick treeing idiots... Well man have I got the track power.....LOL.... That's all mine wants to do... Was just curious as to if you take one like that and cross to whatever could you end up with a pup like yester year... best of both worlds..... Just made me wonder....

We breed pups that are notoriously slow to tree, so I know what you are going through, and it can be aggravating as all get out. But once they do start, they are as nice a hound as there is out there. Unfortunately some never get it.

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Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 07:15 PM:

Thanks everyone for the input... I was just curious as to the possibilities... I will give her a little more time and see if she pulls out of it. She will tree some ever now and then... Tracking is definitely not an issue that needs addressed. If she would get that lined out I would have no issue with trying to breed her. But her being 18 months and not doing it Id say it may be a lost cause...

Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 07:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
"Never singled out"......care to explain your purpose in that? Sounds like quite posssibly some training defects apply here.

I never single a pup out until they can run and tree their own at least once. She will run her own but not tree only very little sometimes... Dad and I hunt together he has a dog that will run and tree his own but is silent on track I mean not a peep... But hunts good and trees HARD... So she will open on track and moves it fast and he will tree so we just always hunted them together and she has never been hunted alone.... Because I can't get her to tree consistently...

Posted by JiM on 01-13-2015 08:12 PM:

If you haven't hunted her alone at least 6 times, you don't know what you got. Simple as that.

Posted by Rocketman55 on 01-13-2015 08:31 PM:

I would suggest hunting her by herself In March and April. Then evaluate what she is doing.

The reason for this is that some young dogs are so easily intimidated by an older, more experienced dog, that they just are afraid to climb up on the wood in company. My Gun dog started that way, and I thought well ole boy if you won't tree in company your going to have to do it by yourself.

At that time he was 13 months old, I started hunting him by himself, staying as close to him as possible so that any time he through a locate I would try to see what tree he was locating on. He treed a coon the first night, I knocked it out. The next two weeks, he treed one or two coons per night, and by the time he had treed 10-15 coon by himself, He was pounding that tree really hard. I put him back in company and he stretched right up beside that old dog and said I want a piece of this tree too.

He finished to Grand Night just before he turned 3 years old. No record by any means, but it just goes to show, he made a pretty good hound even though when he first started, he was easily intimidated.

Good Luck!!

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Posted by hootowlman on 01-13-2015 10:34 PM:

I'll give it a try. I don't see how it could hurt anything....LOL... You make a good point every time I released a coon and let her watch it climb she would bark on tree really good... It really never hit me until now that she was by herself then And did good on tree.... And that she jumped on as a pup twice by a older female when they shot a coon out at a tree... "It wasn't my dog." I can't stand a ill dog... Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees.... And here's my sign...man I feel stupid.... Hahaha!!!!

Posted by Orange Power on 01-14-2015 02:13 AM:

Breeding

It's my opinion that breeding a female that's not a sure enough coon dog is the problem with a bunch of dumb pups all over the country. We all have access to the best stud dogs going down the road thanks to shipped semen. The best way I ever had breeding animals explained to me was by a professor in college. He said that 2% of the animals in a breed are truly elite. He went on to say that if we want to improve a breed those are the animals that need to be bred to.
On another note a friend of mine bought 2 litter mate females & hunted them both for 18 months. One would stay at the tree & knock the limbs off. The other would stay she would run a coon up then move on. So he sold her to a buddy. The buddy knocked a coon out to her & now she is out hunting his grand nite champ male dog.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 01-14-2015 03:27 AM:

Lots of young dogs won't tree with other dogs, seen it a lot.
Every pup should be singled out as early as possible, but late is better then never.

I would focus on your training program instead of developing breeding program. Training is a little easier to get a hang of, leave breeding to the guys with years of experience and mentoring. If you ever do decide to want to breed, get a mentor to help you along.

There are more decent pups going to carp every year then there are good trainers, become a good trainer and you will never have to buy a pup again.

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Posted by Karl Spillane on 01-14-2015 05:48 AM:

breeding

Don't breed her.... cull her out..... I remember my grandaddy telling me... if you want the best, you can't get attached, move on, get rid of the rest, it's hard, especially if you've invested alot of time, but cull her and move on ... jmo

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Posted by hootowlman on 01-14-2015 03:34 PM:

Thanks guys for all the insight and suggestions. I do have a lot of time invested in this pup and guess I have gotten attached to her. More than likely I will not breed her unless she comes around... I just get so aggravated with her because she has almost everything I'm looking for but no go on the tree.. I feel that I'm an alright trainer. I have had alright luck over the years.. I just never singled her out and tired to see what she will do because she wouldn't tree.. But you can sure bet I will now. I don't see where it could hurt anything. Maybe she will be a differnt dog by herself... Never know to you try... The only reason I was even questioning what to breed to is everyone is screaming about no track power anymore.. And I have seen it too. Well I got one just the opposite no tree power... I just was curious if maybe I could take her and breed some track power back into the breed. In my mind it made sense......

Posted by Rocketman55 on 01-14-2015 09:21 PM:

I feel you will be totally shocked when you see how much she changes and how fast she changes when you hunt her by herself. I think every coon a dog trees by itself is worth 5/6 coons that it trees in company. You will probably see a big confidence change in her after the first 5-10 coons you put down to her strictly by herself.

Good Luck!!

Posted by wayne Mcclellan on 01-15-2015 05:25 AM:

Since she is not barking much up the tree, it could be caused by an ear infection. I would take her to a vet and have it checked out. a few years ago, one of my cold tracking open mount females would bark on the track and failed to bark up the tree. The next day, I took her to the vet and it was an inner ear infection. After that, she treed very hard. If you like her, breed he! Good luck!

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