UKC Forums - frozen semen hounds

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-- frozen semen hounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928544726)

Posted by boone docker on 03-14-2022 02:51 AM:

frozen semen hounds

where are the dogs from f.s. that represent there sire well i have hunted with several semen dogs that i know the sire was a reproducer and have seen nothing but average at best does freezing sperm have an affect on the outcome???????

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 03-14-2022 02:07 PM:

I think over time a lot of stud dogs numbers are padded because a few crosses on certain females worked really well and produced great dogs.

Its a rare male that reproduces on any female even if she is great...sometimes it just doesn't work out. When you look over time your comparing perhaps the best dogs a male produced across the entire spectrum of females he was bred to against once certain semen cross which may or may not turn out great.

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Posted by Larry Hall on 03-14-2022 03:02 PM:

I have a frozen semen dog, off a frozen semen dog.. He trees coons pretty regularly for me.. His pups do as well. The bitch he's off of has produced a number of good hounds off of 5 different studs I believe.. Yep She's a frozen semen dog.. Jay Brademeyers Lippers LipLock Lizzy female out of Lipper.

I took him to town enough to know that he's a solid coon treeing dog in any company.

I guess the multi billion beef and dairy industry have it all wrong storing and using millions of breedings on the best bulls..

Pups out of him.. 5/6 living pups tree their own coons consistently - 14 months old currently. Old number 6 is a dud and I own her lol..But she's a good pet..

https://vimeo.com/684275796

https://vimeo.com/684271789

Posted by Toad Hill on 03-14-2022 10:01 PM:

Nope.
Live breeding doesn't dictate the future success of a puppy any more than a frozen breeding does.

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- Live breeding doesn't dictate the future success of a puppy any more than a frozen breeding does.

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Posted by Eric Bierman on 03-15-2022 01:41 AM:

Pups

My question would be how old is the semen? Could it be that genetic progress has surpassed the sire? So by using him you're actually going backwards genetically. This is what could be going on or the cross just didn't work that well.

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 03-15-2022 01:30 PM:

All I can say is the semen that I am using is from 1993 and we are having great success. Brought back allot of hunting traits that have been hurt, through breeding tree monsters😊

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Posted by RedCreek Hunter on 03-17-2022 02:29 AM:

Semen dogs

I was tied up in the Skuna River Bark/Homers Gomer bred dogs for many years. Had some of the best I’ve owned in my 35yrs of hunting from that line. As I got farther away from those dogs in the pedigree my dogs just weren’t suiting me. I’m extremely hard to please when it comes to a Coondog. The newer studs stamped Skuna River ……..offsprings haven’t impressed me at all. I decided to back up and punt and ventured out and got a pup off 40 yr old semen. He just turned two and is as good a young dog as I’ve ever hunted or hunted with. I turned him loose on the place and he took right too running off game as a 4-5 month old pup. Once he started treeing coons at around 7 months old I began hunting him and just solo. By the time he was 12 months old I’d treed a truck load of coons with him. He’s been hunted solo since the beginning and never has had to rely on another dog for anything. He was as natural as they come and naturally fell off the off game once he had some coons rolled out to him and realized that’s what he was born to do. They just don’t train any easier than he did. All I did was take him. Everything else just happened. At just barely two the dog has treed more coons that most dogs couldn’t accomplish in their lifetime. I’ve had several semen dogs. They have been hit and miss just like all the live breeding ones I’ve raised in my time. But as for the one I Hunt now. Give me another one of him over 100 pups from what’s out there today. I don’t have to pick and choose where to Hunt him. The dog is the same everywhere I drop him in all kinda different terrains and conditions.

For those old enough to remember him……. His sire is Moffet’ WC Deamon aka Ky River Deamon who was sired by the one and only Sweeney’s Diamond Jim and his mother was a daughter of Gann’s Finnisher.

Posted by randywoodard2 on 03-17-2022 10:38 AM:

I had a pup off that deamon dog a few years ago. The whole litter was retarded

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Posted by RedCreek Hunter on 03-17-2022 10:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by randywoodard2
I had a pup off that deamon dog a few years ago. The whole litter was retarded

Then I’m glad you owned him and not me. Mine is obviously not from that cross. Come for a hunt anytime. I’ve had pups off of great reproducers, big winners and multiple World champions over the years. I’ve had some pretty bad ones just like you for most.

Posted by boone docker on 03-18-2022 08:17 PM:

i have been at this game fore over 70 years ive owned several good dogs beeding winners to winners or all grands don't get it and just because a dog wins doesn't make him a coon dog to me genetics is the only path to follow but i have yet to see semen dogs perform as well as the sire i hear all the talk but in most cases i have found that the owner has fallen in love because i didn't see the same results

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 03-20-2022 12:25 PM:

What I have witnessed is they think they are special and never get the same hunt the ones before them got!

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

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Posted by boone docker on 03-20-2022 05:28 PM:

thats a good point never thought of it that way

Posted by randywoodard2 on 03-20-2022 06:54 PM:

I wish i never bought one out of that litter myself!! That crazy thing drove me nuts! lol

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Posted by oklared on 03-24-2022 08:12 PM:

EVERYTHING IS THE SAME, DNA ETC. I DONT KNOW WHY BUT FREEZING IT DOES SOMETHING TO IT, EVER WONDER WHY THUROBRED HORSES HAVE TO BE COVERED

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Posted by Eric Bierman on 03-25-2022 01:13 AM:

In some species (pigs and horses in particular) semen for whatever reason can't handle the freezing process. That's why for A.I., fresh or chilled semen is used.

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 03-26-2022 12:15 AM:

If those sperm are live and swimming they are just as good as the day they were collected.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

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Posted by oklared on 03-26-2022 03:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Eric Bierman
In some species (pigs and horses in particular) semen for whatever reason can't handle the freezing process. That's why for A.I., fresh or chilled semen is used.

thorow bred have to be coverd

Posted by oklared on 03-26-2022 03:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
If those sperm are live and swimming they are just as good as the day they were collected.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME

Posted by boone docker on 03-26-2022 07:14 PM:

it is not the same i can atest to that

Posted by randywoodard2 on 03-27-2022 05:53 PM:

Ok guys i will be the one to say it if ya"ll wont!! The sire wasn"t what he was advertised to be in the 1st place!! Or they was blown up because of one female that threw some good pups that was bred to him and promoted.

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Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 03-27-2022 06:46 PM:

😊👍🏼☝️

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

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Posted by boone docker on 03-28-2022 03:38 AM:

not so i'm compering dogs same cross live breeding and frozen semen cross i didnt just fall off the last turnip wagon ive been at this for some time and know what a coon dog is and some about genetics

Posted by Toad Hill on 03-28-2022 04:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by boone docker
not so i'm compering dogs same cross live breeding and frozen semen cross i didnt just fall off the last turnip wagon ive been at this for some time and know what a coon dog is and some about genetics

If you "know" the answer and are so certain then why ask the question in the first place ? Sounds like you got it all figured out to me.

Posted by boone docker on 03-28-2022 11:14 PM:

because i have semen from several good stud dogs that have produced some nice hounds but i don't see the same from frozen semen i get calls to sell some but won't if it's not sound . 'it's a thing called honesty"

Posted by D Brothers on 03-29-2022 12:17 AM:

frozen semen / live breeding

I have had several frozen semen dogs from several generations back , I SEE NO DIFFERENCE, I bred Charley Creek Edge frozen semen to produce Charley Creek Big Mike and 20 yr old semen charley Creek Clay semen to produce Charley Creek Edge, Charley Creek TO the Core and now My Charley Creek Wild Fire bitch 18 months old, I SEE THE SAME STYLE OF DOGS. And I used Big Mike frozen semen also , when I first started breeding Big Mike it was frozen semen only, I consistently got the same kind of hounds,quick starters, hard hunters, accurate, get there mouth open and great track dogs. and natural independence, You have to do your home work on the crosses you make and everybody doesn't train a dog the same way.Just like live breeding for a litter to turn out you have to get them in the right hands. JMO I will continue to use frozen semen for generations to come. PS I HAVE HAD THIS BLOODLINE FOR 35 YRS.

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