UKC Forums - Entry deadline

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-- Entry deadline (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928413165)

Posted by Billy Beckham on 03-23-2015 01:55 AM:

Entry deadline

What's the rule on entry deadline?
If a hunt has a 7pm entry deadline what is the rule on entering after that time.

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Posted by gacoonchaser on 03-23-2015 02:00 AM:

there is no entering after that time. be on time or you don't hunt.

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Posted by HOBO on 03-23-2015 02:04 AM:

If you are in line you may enter, if not then you don't hunt.

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Posted by josey10 on 03-23-2015 05:05 PM:

I was at a club that said as long as they call a head that they can be entered in the hunt after the deadline.
said it was a new rule in 2015. All they had to do was pay an extra 5 dollars...said they could wait 30 min.

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Posted by Toad Hill on 03-23-2015 06:10 PM:

that would have been nice for me several years back , me and buddy drove 3.5 hrs to and RQE once and was 2 min late as we RAN into the clubhouse , MOH said sorry boys rules are rules. We spent our entry fee on 2 BIG porterhouse steaks and drove home. Best steak i ever ate to this day !

Posted by josey10 on 03-23-2015 07:06 PM:

Steak sounds good..lol
I know the old rules..
MOH..was saying a new rule is in affect.
Something like u can call in before deadline and be entered in the hunt. As long as u make it there 30 minutes after deadline and it will cost an extra 5 dollars..
Not sure how all of this apply but would like to know the rule on it..
I was there on time...had to stand around for an extra hour waiting o. People to show up that called..

Posted by jeffrey robinso on 03-23-2015 07:18 PM:

It is called a conditional entry, and the person has to call someone at the club who is willing to pay the entry fee plus the $5 if they don't have the dogs papers or easy entry cards. If the person who is running late is not at the club by the time that the casts are drawn and ready to leave the club then that dog is scratched. There is no rule that you have to wait 30 minutes.

Posted by josey10 on 03-23-2015 07:43 PM:

That's what I was wanting to know thanks..
I watched a guy pay and enter his dog 10 minutes late.
He did pay an extra 5....
He was not entered ...but he did call and the MOH let him in.
Also MOH said he paid for 3 others that didn't show up until 7:40...the deadline was 7:00.
We didn't get out until 8. With 4 cast...
anyways thanks for the reply...

Posted by ssgied on 03-24-2015 01:40 PM:

Sounds like that MOH is a little confused.

Posted by coonhunter, MO on 03-29-2015 06:39 PM:

Deadline

Deadline is as is, DEADLINE if someone is calling in late they need to call a buddy at club to use conditional entry and pay entry fee + $5.00. Officers,or master of hounds are not suppost to enter someone elses dog under this format. When hunter arrives at club then he can give dogs info to MOH. if hunter is not at draw of cards or to here MOH read his report then they should be scratched.(Deadline is Deadline).

Posted by donjohnson on 04-01-2015 02:26 AM:

Hey bill there's a hunt Friday I'm gonna be about 45 minutes late just call the moh I'm sure they'll wait

Posted by Allen / UKC on 04-01-2015 01:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
If you are in line you may enter, if not then you don't hunt.

Correct.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 04-01-2015 01:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josey10
I was at a club that said as long as they call a head that they can be entered in the hunt after the deadline.
said it was a new rule in 2015. All they had to do was pay an extra 5 dollars...said they could wait 30 min.

Someone is confused and does not understand what a Conditional entry is. A Conditional is for a handler that does not have the dogs Easy Entry card or Registration Certificate in their possession when entering the dog. It has zilch to do with deadlines. A conditional entry must still be entered before the deadline.

It is never a good idea for a Master of Hounds and/or Clubs using a Hunt Director to take an entry after the deadline.

Posted by HOBO on 04-01-2015 06:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Correct.

FINALLY I GET ONE RIGHT..

Posted by Allen / UKC on 04-01-2015 06:53 PM:

You're always right Hobo. Sometimes we just don't agree. lol.

Posted by HOBO on 04-01-2015 07:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
You're always right Hobo. Sometimes we just don't agree. lol.

That's the way I see it. lol

Posted by Billy Beckham on 04-01-2015 11:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Someone is confused and does not understand what a Conditional entry is. A Conditional is for a handler that does not have the dogs Easy Entry card or Registration Certificate in their possession when entering the dog. It has zilch to do with deadlines. A conditional entry must still be entered before the deadline.

It is never a good idea for a Master of Hounds and/or Clubs using a Hunt Director to take an entry after the deadline.

Even if they call?

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-01-2015 11:51 PM:

I just tried to re read the rule in the UKC Official Rulebook that pertains to entering a dog in a UKC licensed event. I can't find anything pertaining to "Deadline". Can someone tell me what page/topic it is listed under? Does the rulebook say that a person has to be physically present to enter a dog? I have always "understood" that you had to be there by the "deadline" but on trying to research this, I can't find it in writing. So, is it actually "against the rules" to enter over the phone? I mean, what is the difference really between entering while standing in front of the MOH/Hunt Director or giving him the information over the phone? As long as you don't hold up the cast, what difference does it make?

Posted by Bob Hennessey on 04-02-2015 02:29 AM:

Paul Frederick
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Salem, IL
Posts: 1297

Ok, I've looked through the last 18 months of Coonhound Advisor Columns in the Coonhound Bloodlines and I must admit fault with my previous statement. I was just sure that Allen or I had written about the conditional entries (and late entries) in the last few months. I was mistaken. Either way, here's the answer.

Before conditional entries the entry money could not be taken if a dog and handler were running late because no one had their Easy Entry card or the dog's papers to verify name, owner, and UKC number. We all know with the conditional entry provision, though, that you do not need those documents to enter a UKC Licensed Event, you will just have to pay the $5 conditional entry fee.

With late handlers it is acceptable for someone else to enter for them if they don't think they'll make the entry deadline. The key part though is that the entry must be paid, in full, before the entry deadline. Since the guy at the club doesn't have the Easy Entry card or dog's papers, they will also have to pay the $5 conditional entry fee before deadline. There is not "extending" of the deadline, the entry has already been entered and paid, it's just the participant has not arrived yet.

We then stipulate that all handlers, not present when casts are called out, will be scratched. Now, we want clubs to use good sense when it comes to scratching someone. Please don't bust tail and call the casts out faster than ever just to scratch a dog, but don't draw it out waiting for that cast member. Most of the time when someone is running late they are just a few minutes late so it doesn't delay the cast anyway.

Here's where a lot of handlers have been misinterpreting this rule. They think they can just call the number listed in the Upcoming Events and have them "hold" their entry for them. This is not the case. You had better have someone you know, and trusts you I guess, at the club who is willing to shell out the money for your dog to enter. If the club official or MOH knows the individual and wants to pay their entry it's fine but they have absolutely no obligation to do so.

The same would apply to Bench Show deadlines. You can accept the entry, as long as it's paid in full, but if the participant is not there when their cast is called, they are scratched and forfeit their entry money.

Something for all clubs to remember in this situation is that these hunters are your customers. By speeding up your process just to scratch someone who's entry has been paid, you have the possibility of losing a customer for life. Use good judgement.

When we look at return deadlines we have to remember that there is no extension of entry deadlines. If a guy walks in, who hasn't been entered at all, 2 seconds after deadline has been called, they cannot enter. If a cast walks in 2 seconds after return deadline has been called, their cast is scratched.

I hope this clears this up for you all. You might also consider that this rule has been in effect since January 1, 2011.
Paul Frederick
Salem, Illinois

I found this in an old thread. Hope it. helps was posted by Paul when he was working for UKC

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-02-2015 03:20 PM:

That sounds great, but it is not in "the rules". That was just something posted on the interweb by a guy that used to work for UKC. Is there a difference between the "Rules" written in black and white and "interpretations" by people that may or may not work for UKC? Is there actually a "Rule" about deadlines and what actually constitutes an "entry"? I mean, does it say anywhere in the rulebook that you can't take an entry over the phone? And what if someone e mails or texts their entry to the MOH prior to the deadline? These "smart" phones have opened up a whole new set of "rules". Does it say anywhere that you can't text your entry to the MOH. As I said before, what difference does it make as long as you don't hold up your cast. And what if the late person is your guide? Are you going to scratch your guide because he is 15 min late? I myself don't think that would be a very good idea. I have waited 15 to 30 min many times on a non-hunting guide to get off work at a lot of big hunts.

Posted by Jrkb2012 on 04-03-2015 01:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
That sounds great, but it is not in "the rules". That was just something posted on the interweb by a guy that used to work for UKC. Is there a difference between the "Rules" written in black and white and "interpretations" by people that may or may not work for UKC? Is there actually a "Rule" about deadlines and what actually constitutes an "entry"? I mean, does it say anywhere in the rulebook that you can't take an entry over the phone? And what if someone e mails or texts their entry to the MOH prior to the deadline? These "smart" phones have opened up a whole new set of "rules". Does it say anywhere that you can't text your entry to the MOH. As I said before, what difference does it make as long as you don't hold up your cast. And what if the late person is your guide? Are you going to scratch your guide because he is 15 min late? I myself don't think that would be a very good idea. I have waited 15 to 30 min many times on a non-hunting guide to get off work at a lot of big hunts.

The thing is they Must be PAID before deadline,,kinda hard to do when you're not there

Posted by Bob Hennessey on 04-03-2015 02:42 AM:

Found this post also. I guess if you have a jan. 2011 Bloodlines it's in the ADVISOR COLUMN.

Todd K / UKC
Administrator

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 5234

I think it's fair? The club is making an extra $15 they otherwise wouldn't have and UKC is making $5? Plus the hunter who forgot his EE card doesn't have a long drive back home. Win / Win / Win situation.

For those situation swhere someone is running late just remember that the entry must be paid before deadline. This is not a situation where they can get in the draw and pay for their entry when / if they arrive. Someone has to pay their entry and the conditional fee. The draw is to progress as normal and casts are to be called when you have all the cards ready. If anyone is not there when their cast is called they are scratched. There is no one hour delay like getting separated on the way to the woods. You have to be ready to go when your cast is called. Just like Autumn Oaks or Winter Classic. We'll call for someone maybe two or three times which holds the cast up for five minutes or so but after that, we send them.
PAGE 60 JANUARY 2011 COONHOUND BLOODLINES.
Advisor column

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-03-2015 02:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
Found this post also. I guess if you have a jan. 2011 Bloodlines it's in the ADVISOR COLUMN.

Todd K / UKC
Administrator

For those situations where someone is running late just remember that the entry must be paid before deadline.

Well, there you go in black and white from the big guy himself. As long as the entry fee is paid, it is all right. But it doesn't say that the MOH can't take a phone call/text entry and let the handler/owner "borrow" the money and pay the entry fee himself if he wants to. It sounds to me like the MOH/Hunt Director has some choices here.

Thank you Mr Hennessey for clearing that up for us.

Posted by FRANK BROWN on 04-07-2015 09:29 PM:

As a Master of Hounds, I will not take an entry over the phone or pay any one's entry fee. The Deadline is just that, the DEADLINE. I take conditional entries all the time and we have never had a problem. I DO think the club should get some of the conditional entry fee, but it all goes to UKC. It requires extra book-keeping to keep up with it.
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Posted by Dale Young on 04-09-2015 02:07 PM:

So the "extra" $5 is a penalty or fee charged because you don't physically have the correct paper work with you in hand which sometimes requires looking up and research at the UKC office (if you win) . No win why bother to ?
We actually live in a time when you can have a very good picture of your easy entry card in your phone (seldom forget the phone) and there no longer is a requirement of a signature on the back . I understand this can not take the place of an actual card but my point is you have all the info so no research is required at the office so that takes us back to the penalty money is strictly for not having the correct paper work in hand when you enter so they can verify the info is correct .
Conditional entry has nothing to do with being late .
Because you can enter without papers in hand it makes it possible for someone else to do it for you and this makes it possible to be a little late possibly and still hunt , show , field trial or water race . No requirement to wait for anybody .

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