UKC Forums - The "Winningest"

Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Show all 27 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- The "Winningest" (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928402693)

Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-31-2014 04:03 PM:

The "Winningest"

Very quiet in the office today!!! So I was reading some threads, on dogs that consistently win... those that have done it (RIP Mojo) and another thread on thoughts on how they have done it.

And since I'm a firm believer in consistency, over a flash in the pan, I started thinking about breeding consistent to consistent. And of course, names like Clean and Mojo come to mind, but I couldn't think of a female. And I'm not asking everyone to respond with a list of females!

What I'm wondering is whether the number of wins, has ever been published or if it could be (wink, wink, Todd and Allen)??? We have the top reproducers list, which tells you how many pups a stud or dam had that did some winning, but nothing about how many wins a stud or dam had? There are the Performance Points, and the Purina Race but again, that doesn't provide resolution into the wins over a lifetime, or specific to just the dog and not their offspring. When dogs win a world or national championship, repeatedly (on the very rare occasion that ever happens) that's obvious, but how about those dogs with cast wins at all the big events, or dozens of cast wins as a GrNTCh, etc.

If you want to produce a truly exceptional hound, not just another NTCH or GRNT, in my opinion you need the traits that allows a dog to consistently win. Knowing what dogs can do this, may help make a more informed breeding decision.

Anyone agree???

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-31-2014 04:13 PM:

It looks like you are asking for a lifetime "Total Earnings" list. I think that you will find that in that other magazine or on their pedigrees. Maybe at some point, UKC will be able to come up with a Lifetime Total Performance Points Earned list.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 12-31-2014 04:19 PM:

Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Very quiet in the office today!!! So I was reading some threads, on dogs that consistently win... those that have done it (RIP Mojo) and another thread on thoughts on how they have done it.

And since I'm a firm believer in consistency, over a flash in the pan, I started thinking about breeding consistent to consistent. And of course, names like Clean and Mojo come to mind, but I couldn't think of a female. And I'm not asking everyone to respond with a list of females!

What I'm wondering is whether the number of wins, has ever been published or if it could be (wink, wink, Todd and Allen)??? We have the top reproducers list, which tells you how many pups a stud or dam had that did some winning, but nothing about how many wins a stud or dam had? There are the Performance Points, and the Purina Race but again, that doesn't provide resolution into the wins over a lifetime, or specific to just the dog and not their offspring. When dogs win a world or national championship, repeatedly (on the very rare occasion that ever happens) that's obvious, but how about those dogs with cast wins at all the big events, or dozens of cast wins as a GrNTCh, etc.

If you want to produce a truly exceptional hound, not just another NTCH or GRNT, in my opinion you need the traits that allows a dog to consistently win. Knowing what dogs can do this, may help make a more informed breeding decision.

Anyone agree???

That information is provided by *kc, UKC does not do this.

__________________
Current Home of:
GRNITECH PKC CH CHKC CH
Raleigh's Backwater Hawk

PKC GCH CHKC CH Wipeout 3 Bee
(Z3 x Bell)

PKC CH CHKC CH Rush Run Lil
(Nuck x Lilly)

PKC SCH CHKC CH Wipeout Shorty

Past Home of:

2012 FALL SENIOR SS CH.
GRNITECH PKC PLATINUM CH
MISTER OVERDRIVE
(Drive X Missy)

GRNITECH PKC GOLD CH Kate
(Jack X Jill)

2013 IL PKC State Race Ch.
GRNITECH PKC GOLD CH Little Miss Dottie
(Mr.Jack X Bit)

GRNITECH Curlee Jane
2018 UKC Bluetick World Ch
2018 Fall Round Up Ch
2018 Winter Classic Ch
2017 Battle of The Breeds Ch

NITECH 2018 PKC YOUTH WORLD CH PKC SILVER CH Dirty South Side

GRNITECH PKC SILVER CH SKUNA RIVER QUICK
(Fred X Sue)

GRNITECH Stylish Chase
(Clyde X Patty)

GRNITECH PKC SILVER CH Foggy Mtn. Gomer

UKC GrSqCh NKC GrSqCh Dirt Dodge's Jager

Posted by Stevendale on 12-31-2014 04:31 PM:

Grand nite Nicholas creek Revelee was put in 15 cast as a one year old won 9 of them to make grand that's pretty good average in my book .

__________________
PR Grch GrNite Ch Nichols creek revelee .Pr west fork Ricky bobby ( Revelee pup )

Posted by Carl Fox on 12-31-2014 05:06 PM:

Where are the good reproducing females?

My brother Tommy and i owned Yadkin River Missy when she won 10 straight casts on her way to making gr.nt.ch.

One cast Tommy came in with a win at Georgetown with 800plus but was five minutes late the other time Missy got in on a skunk and Tommy scratched her.

She never lost a cast what time i owned her and Tommy was her handler.

__________________
CARL FOX,JR.
BOONEVILLE,KY

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING INSTEAD
OF HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS!!!

Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-31-2014 05:48 PM:

Richard and Steve - that's sort of what I'm looking for but not exactly. Neither lifetime earnings or performance points would tell you how they went about it. Even total $'s in any of the kennel clubs would not tell you if they consistently won a bunch of hunts or just won a couple really big ones.

What I'm thinking is probably not easy to compile, but it's along the lines of...

GrNtCh Mr. or Mrs. Consistent - Total Cast Wins: 30, GrNTCh Cast Wins: 10, Purina Hunt Cast Wins: 5, Hunts Won: 12

I only used Purina Hunts as a reference to "big hunts" but there may be a better way to categorize this. This could provide a "Top Winners" list, similar to the top reproducers list.

And again, I personally am not looking for who was the "winningest" hound, as much as I'm trying to discern who is the most consistent. IF a dog can reproduce itself or similar, I would prefer to breed to the dog that was consistently very good, as opposed to one that could produce thousands of inconsistent champions. I think you'll win more hunts, and big hunts with them, and most importantly they are a consistent pleasure to hunt the other 5 nights of the week!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by john Duemmer on 12-31-2014 06:09 PM:

Best indicator Of consistancy would be a dogs casts WON/LOSS percentage but i doubt UKC. has access to a record of a dogs total casts entered. It sure would be a great tool for the breeder.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-31-2014 06:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Best indicator Of consistancy would be a dogs casts WON/LOSS percentage but i doubt UKC. has access to a record of a dogs total casts entered. It sure would be a great tool for the breeder.

That's the type of information I'm thinking of, but without the total cast wins, it could be skewed by a hound that was entered in one hunt, and won it! Knowing the type of cast or hunt, is also needed. I'm not sure I would want to breed to a dog that had 20 registered cast wins, but could never seal the deal!

But you're right, that not knowing how many they lost, wouldn't tell the whole story, either.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by jculler8 on 12-31-2014 06:22 PM:

I like it!

__________________
OAKS POINT KENNELS

HOME OF

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

Posted by JiM on 12-31-2014 06:24 PM:

How could anyone leave out Frisky? Two World Hunts and National Grand Nite Champion. One of the best females alive.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-31-2014 06:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
How could anyone leave out Frisky? Two World Hunts and National Grand Nite Champion. One of the best females alive.

Good point Jim... I guess we're just more inundated with talk about studs, that we tend to forget about the females, even the more recent ones!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by Mike Van Dusen on 12-31-2014 06:38 PM:

Mill Creek Molly had to have a pile of win slips to accumulate over $100,000.oo in winnings,and she was from an awesome cross!

__________________
"Some dogs will learn to tree a coon, others were born to!

"Coma Power"
"It's in the blood"
HOME- 219-326-7907
CELL-219-575-0067

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 12-31-2014 07:11 PM:

Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Very quiet in the office today!!! So I was reading some threads, on dogs that consistently win... those that have done it (RIP Mojo) and another thread on thoughts on how they have done it.

And since I'm a firm believer in consistency, over a flash in the pan, I started thinking about breeding consistent to consistent. And of course, names like Clean and Mojo come to mind, but I couldn't think of a female. And I'm not asking everyone to respond with a list of females!

What I'm wondering is whether the number of wins, has ever been published or if it could be (wink, wink, Todd and Allen)??? We have the top reproducers list, which tells you how many pups a stud or dam had that did some winning, but nothing about how many wins a stud or dam had? There are the Performance Points, and the Purina Race but again, that doesn't provide resolution into the wins over a lifetime, or specific to just the dog and not their offspring. When dogs win a world or national championship, repeatedly (on the very rare occasion that ever happens) that's obvious, but how about those dogs with cast wins at all the big events, or dozens of cast wins as a GrNTCh, etc.

If you want to produce a truly exceptional hound, not just another NTCH or GRNT, in my opinion you need the traits that allows a dog to consistently win. Knowing what dogs can do this, may help make a more informed breeding decision.

Anyone agree???

If you are looking for raw numbers such as CW's then you can't compare UKC hunts with other registries....I mean 15, 20, 25 CW's in UKC really doesn't amount to much when compared to a dog thats been hunted outside UKC. There are many female's out there with WELL OVER 100 CW's, heck I own one that has over 100 CW's....Dogs like Chesapeaks Rats lil Silk, MC Molly wouldnt surprise me if they had over 200 or even 300 CW's.

Posted by jay brademeyer on 12-31-2014 07:23 PM:

I had an ole female back in the 80s and early 90s that won almost every cast she was in. She is still a measuring stick for me today..she is one of my all time favorites..but she never produced much of anything that was any good..she was bred to top hounds and one was a world champion..she was as consistent as i have ever had, but was not a reproduced at all..she was one of those freaks, and most freaks don't reproduce.. I didn't say all... i said most...

__________________
JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Lipper's Lip Lock Lizzy, Ntch Moonshiners Sassy, and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

Posted by deschmidt27 on 12-31-2014 07:28 PM:

Re: Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
If you are looking for raw numbers such as CW's then you can't compare UKC hunts with other registries....I mean 15, 20, 25 CW's in UKC really doesn't amount to much when compared to a dog thats been hunted outside UKC. There are many female's out there with WELL OVER 100 CW's, heck I own one that has over 100 CW's....Dogs like Chesapeaks Rats lil Silk, MC Molly wouldnt surprise me if they had over 200 or even 300 CW's.

I'm sure you can't, just as you can't compare a registered cast win to a NtCh win, and you can't compare that to a GrNtCh cast win, but I'm not thinking about comparing one registries win to another, I'm just talking about wins within UKC.

I'm sure there's no registry that is gathering data about wins within another, so there will likely never be a way to do a head to head comparison...

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by MIKE CARDER on 12-31-2014 09:43 PM:

Re: Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
If you are looking for raw numbers such as CW's then you can't compare UKC hunts with other registries....I mean 15, 20, 25 CW's in UKC really doesn't amount to much when compared to a dog thats been hunted outside UKC. There are many female's out there with WELL OVER 100 CW's, heck I own one that has over 100 CW's....Dogs like Chesapeaks Rats lil Silk, MC Molly wouldnt surprise me if they had over 200 or even 300 CW's.

300 CW's. That's 1 hunt a weekend for 6 years straight not losing. Hard to believe.

__________________
Iraq Vet, 03-05, 05-07, 09-10

Phone number 270-820-5560

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 12-31-2014 10:00 PM:

Re: Re: Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
300 CW's. That's 1 hunt a weekend for 6 years straight not losing. Hard to believe.

Well you better believe Mike. I didnt say she had 300 CW's but it d*mn sure would not surprise me if either one did have 200 or even 300. I can reach out to Preston and see if he knows how many CW's Silk had....She was comp. hunted and winning when she was on Social Security bud!

Posted by buck brush on 12-31-2014 10:13 PM:

now that UKC is reg. cross breeds, back in the day when they had grade hunts all I had was a 1/2 black and tan and 1/2 cur or something she looked like a BLKTN but her chest was white, so I was going to hunts with people I put her in 37 grade hunts and won 37 hunts I have some Pic. around here some place of her I will see if I can scan them and post them on here .

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725

gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

Posted by JmillerFL on 12-31-2014 10:29 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
Well you better believe Mike. I didnt say she had 300 CW's but it d*mn sure would not surprise me if either one did have 200 or even 300. I can reach out to Preston and see if he knows how many CW's Silk had....She was comp. hunted and winning when she was on Social Security bud!

didn't the silk dog win a big one at like 10 or 11 yrs old.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 12-31-2014 11:21 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by JmillerFL
didn't the silk dog win a big one at like 10 or 11 yrs old.

Yeah

Posted by Bolden1 on 12-31-2014 11:36 PM:

What time

I was pushing jane she was in the mid 90% of cast wins. Actually I think she only lost two cast that I know of from pr to grntch to WLDNTCH and she came back got second the next year. Plus she was and think still is number one on reproducer list. I guess she would land in the top ten of females. I know nighty nighty moonlight Kate was as impressive and in my book maybe the best of the best in that caterory

__________________
Home/ past owners:

2005 ukc Wldntch Grntch Bolden & Turpins
Insane jane. Handler/past owner
2005 over all setwd over all winner nt.ch
Bentley high dollar Lucy
2006 akc national pup champion Drop Dead
Fred ( Handler/ past owner)
2008 Ukc Ky State Champion Grntch High X
Pectations ( Handler / past owner)
2009 akc Ky State Champion Grntch
Hardwood X Press ( handler/ trainer)

Gr.Nt.Ch Big D & Joplins Super Sally

Posted by Dogwhisper on 01-01-2015 12:07 AM:

I doubt UKC keeps a record of every dogs CastWins verses CastLost + total hunts entered. .

But I do know a dog that went from "PR" to Grand to placing 6th in UKC world hunt...all in one competition season ....accumulated wins @ the National level of competition. Only to never enter another nite hunt again .

Posted by Larry Atherton on 01-01-2015 02:06 AM:

Now my memory isn't the best, but I think Raccoon Valley Queen always seemed to win at the Regionals for many years.

Ben Crocker won a bunch with his Flash female.

There are females that consistently win a lot if you look.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 01-01-2015 05:58 AM:

Re: Re: Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
300 CW's. That's 1 hunt a weekend for 6 years straight not losing. Hard to believe.

Not unlikely at all -the 300CW that is ... there are hunts somewhere atleast 5 nights a week and the weeks of added $ hunts quite often every night but Sunday , there are also double headers on alot of Fri and Sat nights (2 $30 or $25 hour hunts back to on same night) . I don't think he meant she won 300 in a row just that she had possibly won over 300 hunts . It would be quite easy for a dog to hunt in over 100 a year that is less than 10 a month . A guy trying for a truck ticket or running a national leader race is going to attend more than that & the month of Sept when everyone is trying to stay in top 16 , SS $ earned or to get rest of $ won to qualify for nationals (top 12 of state or $1,000 earned for year - no added $ counts toward any of these) it can get crazy how many hunts a dog is put in and where they will travel to attend even a $30 week night hunt .
The other kc's require score cards to be sent in , you can request a hunt win report on a dog - it will have date and $ amount won of every hunt the dog has ever won . I do not believe the keep win/loss records though .

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Posted by stillwater farm on 01-01-2015 06:08 AM:

Re: Re: Re: The "Winningest"

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
300 CW's. That's 1 hunt a weekend for 6 years straight not losing. Hard to believe.

I bet Molly had over 300.She was hunted in a cast 4 to 5 nights a week for 5 or 6 years......And she was pretty consistant with those CW's.

__________________
STILLWATER FARM'S BLUETICKS,
TOM JENNINGS
(937)875-5568

HOME OF.........
GRNITECH STILLWATER FARM'S BLUE LEGEND
NITECH STILLWATER FARM'S BLUE PRODIGY

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:56 PM.

Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Show all 27 posts from this thread on one page