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-- Making HBCH requirement change (my opinon) (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=292533)

Making HBCH requirement change (my opinon)

I do not know if this is a rule change or a requirement change, but I would like to see it become a little harder to make a champion.

I would like to see it require 150 points and a win.

I just think making champion in three hunts is not realistic for a true champion. 150 point would at least require placing in more than three or 4 hunts.

Another advantage would be for the poor boy hunt attendance. Adding points will require attending more hunts to accomplish the HBCH award.

Let's discuss other ideas and how could we get a change made.

Most dogs have over 150 pts before they even get a win.So why change it.JMO

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I don't really like how a dog can get bench points for winning it's class because it was the only dog in it to begin with...I know a dog that is like 5 points away from being a show champion and the dog barely could pass for a beagle.

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Meg Sheets

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I think that a dog should only be able to be hunted in a limited number of hunts per year. Maybe 8-10 per year.

As long as it can run a rabbit, if you hunt a dog enough times, it will become a champion sooner or later. There are a lot of "champions" that aren't worth a dime. We all know this.

Spurlock, you are right alot of hounds do end up with over 150 points. If it was a requirement I feel we would have a more respected title.

What about a hound that gets a first in one of its three placements?

A first place and two third placements and your a champion.
I would like to see a little more.

How about some ideas.
What would make champions that were worth a dime?

Why not have it 3 wins to finish as a champion and 5 to finish as a grand.

That would certainly make it a lot more difficult.

I wonder what the requirements are for the other formats akc, and arha?

Can some one help out on this?

arha is the same
akc is three wins and 120 pts- points are done much different- akc is by far the hardest to finish a dog in

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It's already 5 champion wins to be a grand. You Should'nt worry so much about other peoples dogs.

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The Home of GRHBCH GRCH Cherry Hill Red Chief
2009 Ohio State Hunt Grand Cast winner at age 9. 2007 NHBA Days Grand Champion Winner and Top Dog of the Hunt Winner, the only dog out of 80 to circle a rabbit that day. 2003 Ohio State UKC and NKC Best in show Winner, Nationals and Eliminator Best Senior Male. National Cast Winner 8 years in a row.
HBCH GRCH Cherry Hill Blue Ribbon Best in Show Winner of the 1st McVay
2002 Memorial Hunt, Champion of Champions Eliminator Hunt. National Cast winner 3 years in a row.
GRHBCH Gorman's Big Brassy
HBCH CH Gorman's Creek Jewel
CH Gorman's Princess Leia

"The more you think you know, the less you really know".

if you dont like ukc go hunt some other kc's with different reguirements

Why can't a guy post a topic on this board, and not have someone jump down his throat.

The man made a simple suggestion on here and people are telling him to get lost and go to different registry.

Its different when someone gets on here trying to stir the pot. But lay off the guys that are trying to make OUR sport better. What he proposed doesn't sound all that bad to me. I would like too see 2 wins in HB and PP in the Reg.to make a Champ

I see many dogs over here that get wins at hunts were there are only 2 dogs because there is a hunt somewere else . It makes me sick to see it. People schedule hunts on top of other hunts so they don't draw any dogs or have hunts on holidays .

Attacking a guy is not how we make the sport grow and that's not how crowds grow at our hunts.

It's to late now but save your idea for next years rules committee meetings and send them in. That's why they have these meetings.

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Travis McCarthy
mccarthysroofing@att.net
317-563-2949

M and M Beagles

Home of
2006 PP World Hunt 5th place
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2011 PP World Hunt 3rd place
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GRHBCH GRPCH GRCH M and M's Rocky

2012 PP World Hunt 8th place
PCH M and M's Abby

PCH M and M's Little Red

PCH Reinhart's Sizzlin Sadie (RIP)

PCH Glomski's Cody

?

I understand what you are saying but look at the money factor ,if a fella is lucky enough to finish in 3 hunts good for him but alot of people arent that LUCKY OR FORTUNATE ,so I say leave it .

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good post travis

All I have to say is a title doesn't run a rabbit!

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Jamey I know it takes 5 wins to make a grand. Its been that way from the start but the point I was getting at was with the 3 wins to make a champion and then the 5 wins that might just weed out the soso dogs and bring the program to the next level.

M&M - Good post. Nicely put.

Rmaynard - I agree with you. The titles would mean more if they were harder to get, meaning less of them. You ought to be able to look at a dog with a "Champion" title and know that it's a great dog. That is just not the case.

Jamey and Akso - Really? Sad. We should support the sport and outside ideas, not bash them. Opinions should always be given and expressed. That's what forms great organizations.

I agree, with Rob. It would weed out some of the weaker champions. I've seen a lot of HBCH's that can't jump and circle their own rabbit.

Maybe we could make them certify like PP. At least then you know they're a rabbit dog.

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DCK Labradors and Beagles
Labs-OGF Tucker
DCK Lady Antebellum
DCK Rolling Red Rock
DCK Chocolate Peanut Butter Cup
Beagles- (RIP) FC Buckeyes Big John
HBCH PCH Dry Creek Stroke Of Genius
DCK Bounty Hunter
DCK Queen Of The Cage (Rousey)

Wow! I'm not bashing anyone, but you"are" bashing existing champions. I'm not trying to jump on anyone, sorry if it sounded that way. What I was trying to say is, your not going to like every champion dog out there. That's your opinion of that dog that day.
Someone might not like your champion, so what. The rules are the same for everyone, and no matter how tough you make the rules a determined person will finish a dog. So my comment was who Care's if someones champion dog is not what you think a champion dog should be. Titles don't make a dog , they never did!
As a side note, all the champion dogs I have seen were rabbit dogs! So if you only worry about your dogs, problem solved!
If you think that is bashing, oh well......


P.S. " Dog makes champion in 3 or 4 hunts is not a true champion" ????? What???? You should re-think that statement!

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Gorman's Creek Kennels
The Home of GRHBCH GRCH Cherry Hill Red Chief
2009 Ohio State Hunt Grand Cast winner at age 9. 2007 NHBA Days Grand Champion Winner and Top Dog of the Hunt Winner, the only dog out of 80 to circle a rabbit that day. 2003 Ohio State UKC and NKC Best in show Winner, Nationals and Eliminator Best Senior Male. National Cast Winner 8 years in a row.
HBCH GRCH Cherry Hill Blue Ribbon Best in Show Winner of the 1st McVay
2002 Memorial Hunt, Champion of Champions Eliminator Hunt. National Cast winner 3 years in a row.
GRHBCH Gorman's Big Brassy
HBCH CH Gorman's Creek Jewel
CH Gorman's Princess Leia

"The more you think you know, the less you really know".

i would like to see ukc make a rule where the hound to be championed be soloed at a seprate club producing and circleing the rabbit on its own ability under nutrial judges just a thought

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Dunlap Kennels
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PKC World Bench Champion GRCH HBCH Kaylas Punkin From Mtn View


Breeder of the youngest World Show Champion in UKC history

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owned by Andy and Jason Butcher

Now were getting some more good ideas.

- Run there own rabbit
- maybe add another win
- more points

I am not bashing any champions and a dog that champions out in three hunts would have any way.

I would like to see something a little more to improve the status of champion. These are great ideas and maybe one will be just what we need to add a little extra assurance of greatness.

I would still like to hear more ideas. Anyone that has known champions that are not to there standards should think about how to tweak the requirements to improve them.

i wanna jump in on some of this action lol! No you guys have good points I think everyone here knows. U.K.C has LOTS of hunts. At least compared to a.k.c they do. I don't think much of just a Champion title on a dog. Grand is a bit more prestigious in my opinion b/c it has to win 5 hunts. thats alil more proving of a hound in my opinion. then lets look at performance pack. Ok, you get a hound GRCH GRHBCH GRPCH ok maybe it's a nice now lets see it run...WOW! it is or is'nt a nice a dog. Honestly a Title is a Title. Thats about all. People do like look at papers and see all those degrees and all those titles everywhere but.......don't jump into things and run what you like. haha not much of an input i know but it's the simple way of looking at things i guess...In my opinion too many dogs not deserving of the title make it. As we saw from the rule changes though our opinions dont get us very far. Another thing to look at is the people who are allowing these dogs to get the titles. Performance pack is a much more suitable structure for producing good champions than hound and hunter is. the judges have to meet requirements, they can be supervised by cast members for honesty & fairness, the dogs have to prove they circle there own rabbit and can be gunned over, guys c'mon. Hound & Hunter is almost a joke these days in the shadow of performance pack. thats my opinion as well. Hound and Hunter period has too many holes, and short comings. the dogs are competing for points, not to run a rabbit. A me too number 2 dog will win everytime. I don't want a dog that follows the leader everywhere, and me too's everytime another dog opens first. I just don't. Now obviously not every champion is this way and there are plenty of nice dogs, but yeah the reason this post exists is bc too many dogs sham there way right in there too.....

I noticed that to. What's the point in asking for input if it's not going to matter? Maybe they went with some kind of electoral vote, lol.

__________________
DCK Labradors and Beagles
Labs-OGF Tucker
DCK Lady Antebellum
DCK Rolling Red Rock
DCK Chocolate Peanut Butter Cup
Beagles- (RIP) FC Buckeyes Big John
HBCH PCH Dry Creek Stroke Of Genius
DCK Bounty Hunter
DCK Queen Of The Cage (Rousey)

Another thing to think about is....ok lets say they did up and change the requirement tomorrow..does that take away from the credibility of former champions who made it before the change ? there is alot of politics lol, and U.K.C never claimed to be a democracy. lets think about the practicality of changing the requirements after they have been around for so long. I think you should look at the hound and not the title. that does'nt mean i don't agree with vast majority of posters on this thread though.

How about when they get their points to make champion,

Run there own rabbit
- maybe add another win
- more points
-certify under the gun.

Thornie

It is funny I submitted A change like you put down to the committee and i don't see where it was diascussed. I did see one of my other proposals failed. If these are hunting beagle champions the should not be gun shy so they should certify solo under the gun to be called a champion.

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