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i have a question

i was over to youth nationals and me and another kid got scratch for our dogs going back to the same tree. heres the question, can my dog get scratched for going back to the same tree more than once. i know in akc you can for going back. just need to confirm some of this bull crap that happen.
ryan

its up to the judge

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i dont know i talked to all my buddys and they all said and on of them asked the master of hounds that and said i couldnt of gotten scratched.

if the dog go's back to the same tree more then 2 times the next time your out

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Here is the official rule out of the rule book:

5. CIRCLED AND DELETED POINTS

(e) No points, not even circled points, will be awarded when dogs return to tree that had previously been scored, cast may go to tree without dogs being declared treed, if majority of cast agree, when hunting Judges are used.

Here is the complete list of rules for a scratch:


*6. DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED:

(a) If a dog has a total of 400 minus points, regardless of how many plus points the dog has.

(b) Fighting or attempting to fight during the authority of the Judge. Dog's name, UKC number and owner's name will be reported to UKC on Nite Hunt report form. No handler will be allowed to scratch his dog to avoid dog from being scratched for fighting. When the aggressive dog is known, scratch the aggressor only. If not known, scratch dogs involved.

(c) Attempting to fight is defined as follows: when dog(s) are interfering with other dog(s) during the authority of the Judge by aggressive behavior.

(d) Failing to make any attempt to hunt within any 30 consecutive scorecard minutes.

(e) On second offense if handler fails to strike his dog on or before the third bark, after the first minute, each time dog(s) is released. (This rule is to be rigidly enforced.)

(f) On second offense if handler calls another handler's dog.

(g) If a handler is drinking or if he seems to want to stir up trouble.

(h) Bitches smelling strong enough to attract dogs or a dog that is just bad to bother bitches while other dogs pay them no attention.

(i) If dog is continuously silent on trail.

(j) For delaying completion of cast for one hour after time out is called in accordance with Rule 8.

(k) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, dog is scratched for running, treeing or molesting off game during the authority of the Judge.

(l) For use of any device used to control or locate dog prior to cast completing hunt time. (Locating device may be used during time outs.) Lighted collars are not considered to be a locating device and are allowed.

(m) If handler hollers at or physically abuses the dog.

(n) Club must set an overall time limit and cast will be scratched for violation.

(o) For running or molesting stock. (Only one offense.)

*(p) If handler fails to return to MOH/HD after cast becomes separated.

(q) If handler fails to declare treed a dog obviously treeing (Judge's decision) for a period of five minutes. Dog may be declared treed while five is running but not after the five has expired. Judge must verify dog to be at a tree before it can be scratched.

In accordance with the rules, a dog can go back unlimited times and not be scratched. Did you question the scratch when it happened? Did the Master of Hounds go with the judge's decision?

Here is the rule that covers that:

*18. (a) The decision of a non-hunting Judge may only be questioned in the field at the time the decision is made. The non-hunting Judge's decision cannot be overturned in the field by a majority vote of cast members. It will be scored with a question mark (?) and reviewed by the MOH/panel. A decision made by a non-hunting Judge may only be overturned by the MOH/panel.

If returning to the tree was the only reason your dog's were scratched, the judge made an error. I'm sure sorry you got scratched, but knowing the rules are very important to keep a situation like this from happening. Good Luck at the next hunt!

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I'm pretty sure he can go back all night long in ukc and not get scratched. If he goes back and they start the stationary and you don't tree the dog and he/she is found to be treed then you can be scratched. The dog can return all night long though, just delete the points and re-cast

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Absolutely amazing.

quote:

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Originally posted by WVA_bluhunter
its up to the judge

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Wrong KC fellas! There isn't a scratch rule for returning to a previously scored tree in the UKC!

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352-400-2374 Cell
PKC#50739

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Absolutely amazing.

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__________________
352-400-2374 Cell
PKC#50739

scratched

YOUR DOG SHOUD NOT HAVE GOTEN SCRATCHED
YOU NEED TO CALL UKC

Call UKC? And tell them what? That someone got screwed because they didn't know the rule. didn't know to question,didn't know how to file a formal complain?

Six years old or 60 years old, the rules are the same for everyone, man, woman or child. Know them or learn them the hard way.

Re: scratched

quote:

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Originally posted by tktashha8
YOUR DOG SHOUD NOT HAVE GOTEN SCRATCHED
YOU NEED TO CALL UKC

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__________________
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PKC#50739

UKC should still be aware that the judge in that cast is unfamiliar with the rules. It is the host club's responsibilty to have their judges know the rules. The question should have been brought back to the Master of Hounds. From 6 to 60, if you are with a non qualified judge.....yes, you are screwed!

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Absolutely amazing.

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I never have had a dog scratched for going back to the tree....
I had problems with my judges both nights at youth nationals noot knowing the rules. Then because I am a youth they would not beleive me about the rules and would ask the adults and the adults were wrong about the rules. The second night the judge circled all the stike points when the one dog was shut out and never treed but was on the tree. then when a dog that was stuck in came in to us at the tree but never treed he would not minus him(and that was my dog). then he didnt even know how long you had to shine the tree and that in the last three you could squall even though a dog was not on the leash. It was probably the worst judgeing I ever have had that is even out of the regular hunts. The one guy didnt judge a cast in over 20 years he told us. The first night my judge had no reason to be in the woods i thank him for it but he was 76 years old and just had a knee replacement.

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The truly AMAZING thing here is that the judges are NON HUNTING and assigned by the MOH!

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Carry your own rulebook

I know the rules are on the back of the score card. But it is way easier to reach in your back pocket and verify all rules. They just happen to fit perfect in your back pocket. If you don't know the rule you can in about 30 seconds.

Nobody expects kids to know every UKC rule or every minute interpretation. Heck, most of the adults don't. And I'm not about to wade into judgeing at an event I have no knowlege of. Sounds like a club bit off more than it could chew as hosts of the biggest Youth Event in our sport but i sure don't know that.
However, there are basic rules that anyone handling should know irreguardless of their age or experience level. And the procedure to get your question on the card and in front of the MOH is the most basic of all. With non-hunting judges, it is just as simple as saying "Judge, I want to question that". With a non-hunting judge you don't even need a vote, just ask for your question to go on the card.
Everything is a learning process.

thanks for the info. i mean i didnt know wat to do. i went back to the club. picked up my other dog and left. that was the first nite hunt i had been in for a long while. but theres nothing i could do now. thanks for everyone that gave me the reinsurence of that rule. im still really make and kicking my self for not questioning that. the other kid did but i had no idea what to do. thanks

judge

the frist night the judge didn't know crap like shine time or tree time didn't know to minus dog if not at the tree but the judge we had sat was nice and know how to judge a cast the problem i have when my son ask to question a call the judge told him not to worry about it and that was on friday night i told him if he didn't like a call to question no matter what the judge said you have the right to question a call if it's not right

what i ment about its up to the judge is that when you are in a cast with a non-hunting judge what he says goes even if he is wrong and you file a formal complaint you are still done in the woods for that night

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Decisions by non-hunting judges can be question in the field and taken to the MOH just the same as a question for a hunting judge. The ONLY difference is that there is no cast vote with a non-hunting judge.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Call UKC? And tell them what? That someone got screwed because they didn't know the rule. didn't know to question,didn't know how to file a formal complain?

Six years old or 60 years old, the rules are the same for everyone, man, woman or child. Know them or learn them the hard way.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Absolutely amazing.

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Come on people drop you're ego and admitt you just got beat, made a bad call, dog made a mistake, what ever.You can't get cheated that much