UKC Forums - What are ya calling an ambush style dog?

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-- What are ya calling an ambush style dog? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928553829)

Posted by Joseph Nalley on 11-29-2023 02:41 PM:

What are ya calling an ambush style dog?

I hear this term or read it and I am confused. Is there another name for it. Any and all information will be appreciated. Thanks be safe out there

Posted by MOcoondogs on 11-29-2023 05:06 PM:

I see it used for hounds that are silent on track. I have hunted a few hounds that were like that and I can see how people would use that term for such a hunting style.

Posted by Joseph Nalley on 11-29-2023 05:33 PM:

Ok thanks. Are poeple breeding for that style of dog now? My self I love to hear one open up and move the track. Everyone like something different, and that ok. Thanks again

Posted by Purple12 on 11-29-2023 05:48 PM:

I use it and understand it to be a dog that will go as far as he needs to more less run up on one on the ground and tree it up the closest tree to him, by the time the coon knows the dog is around he has to climb, this dog is not interested in trailing and pushing the coon, and is overlooking this type of track looking for one red hot

__________________
Krt

Posted by OLD TIMER on 11-29-2023 08:30 PM:

This is so easy—-

COMPETITION DOG

Just read the ads.

Let me know if you see one that has:
Good cold trailer
Open on track
Big bawl track mouth
Dying locate
Nice steady chop on tree
Checks back in after 20/30 minutes if nothing found
90% accurate

__________________
OLD TIMER

Posted by Dave Richards on 12-01-2023 01:15 AM:

Ambush style

quote:
Originally posted by Purple12
I use it and understand it to be a dog that will go as far as he needs to more less run up on one on the ground and tree it up the closest tree to him, by the time the coon knows the dog is around he has to climb, this dog is not interested in trailing and pushing the coon, and is overlooking this type of track looking for one red hot

Purple12, You hit the nail on the head with this description of a ambush dog. One that seeks red hot tracks that tree quickly. Definitely NOT my style of dog, but one that does good in competition, as they have a coon most of the time. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Black Ash Bawl on 12-06-2023 03:32 AM:

got one

hot nose, 20 mins is a very long track for her. extremely accurate

__________________
I have my best hound now. Cricket out of Moonlight/Outlaw Mac by Feldmans Roxie,

Posted by gdjr on 12-06-2023 10:41 AM:

Re: got one

quote:
Originally posted by Black Ash Bawl
hot nose, 20 mins is a very long track for her. extremely accurate

20 minutes is cold trailing. Ambush dogs take about 20 seconds if they are good at it.

__________________
Gordon Drnek Jr.

Posted by Black Ash Bawl on 12-07-2023 07:16 AM:

stand corrected

she will average 5 to 10 mins. Sometimes it is locate and tree , no track.

__________________
I have my best hound now. Cricket out of Moonlight/Outlaw Mac by Feldmans Roxie,

Posted by honalieh on 12-09-2023 02:10 AM:

Ambush Dogs

Although some could be silent, I don't feel that's an appropriate answer. Some silent dogs can have good noses and tracking ability. They just keep their mouth shut. A lot of times, good dogs that are open trailers learn when to tighten up.

What I'd call an ambush dog is one that is hot nosed and won't really work a track much. They may pass up a lot of tracks and coon looking for that hot easy pop-up. And, they can get deep to find that pop-up. It's often very easy to find their coon.

Some of these ambush dogs can be babblers, that will open until they do hit that hot pop-up. Other times, it could be a trash runner that will run across a hot coon, then drop off and fall treed. They can be tough to beat in competition. You may have to tree 2 coon to their 1 coon to beat them. Not great for coonhunting, but can excel in competition.

To me, here's the best way to relate to coonhunters what an ambush dog is. Think about the times when your dogs may have treed a possum! No real tracking to it. Just ran across the possum, popped it up a bush, and locked down treed on it. Pretty easy to see, right? Take that same concept with the possum, except now it's a coon. That should give you a perspective on what an ambush dog is. They didn't really run it. They didn't really trail it. But, they did run across it, pop it up a bush, and locked down treed.

Posted by DL NH on 12-09-2023 04:33 AM:

Hot nosed dog that hunts with its head up, runs over tracks that it can’t smell and is often semi-silent or totally silent.

In my mind the competition hunts created this style of dog when they changed the rules giving the first dog treed 50 points more than the second dog.

I truly believe that this rule has played a huge roll in the lack of tracking ability in a high percentage of the various coonhound breeds today.

When the competition hunts first started it was with the intent to provide a means for people to get together and compare the abilities of their hounds.

When the money entered the game the changes came. Very few people want to hear a dog work up a track from a cold feeder track into a hot race that precedes that anticipated moment of silence before the locate followed by the rhythmic tree bark that every hound man who follows tree hounds loves to hear.

Many people think a cold tailing dog is always a slow track straddling dog. Far from the truth! A track straddler will straddle a hot track too!

You can blame the competition hunts and the money involved for much of the loss of tracking ability that exists in the coonhounds of today.

I know I’m going to get slammed for this. I suspect most of that will come from those who have never had the opportunity to see a good, open cold trailing track dog perform. I’m not talking about a track straddler that stands on its head!

__________________
Dan

Posted by Boondok Kennels on 12-09-2023 10:42 AM:

When I think back on the good ole days from years ago, I remember turning loose on cold nights, like close to single digits, and listening to a hound open up on a cold track with a BAWL mouth, not chop. I don’t remember thinking they’re taking too long, because they didn’t straddle the track forever. That’s what caught me and made me want to follow a hound. I think dogs of today have improvements, but lack some things from the old days also. Maybe my memory isn’t as accurate as I think, but either way I still enjoy these hounds and still look for a dog that can run a track and still ambush when it presents itself, not just ambush one. End of the day, the dog only needs to please the person holding the lead.

__________________
Bob Kwandrans Jr
Home of the Buck Creek dogs:
*GrNitech Buck Creek Country
*Buck Creek Fancy
*Phrog’s Buck Creek Cletus
*Ch Blaster's Big Roller...RIP
*Buck Creek Sugie...RIP
*GrNiteCh Buck Creek Hitler...RIP

Posted by OLD TIMER on 12-09-2023 11:40 AM:

Boondocks,

I think you would like Blakesley’s Northern Chance.
He has that old bawl mouth on track that “shakes the leafs” off the tree. Has a great nose that can work those feeder tracks on these cold frozen nights up here. Opens when he smells it and doesn’t stand on his head but opens enough so you don’t need to get the tracker out to know what’s happening. Fun to listen to him work a feeding track over down trees, across creeks and then as he starts to really sing, it’s a “concert” that would make any true hound people proud. Then comes 3 long dying locates that roll over to a steady chop. No jacking the tree, no ivory showing, no acting like he’s got crazy, just a steady chop until you get there. If it’s a small tree he’ll be standing at the base, on a larger tree he’ll have his front feet up and he’ll be looking up. Of all the trees we’ve made this fall there has been only one that I didn’t look at eyes.
Not everyone’s type for sure, but I started hunting in 1956 and I have NEVER done it for a Title-Trophy or Money, but for the CONCERT. That’s something an ambush dog doesn’t give you. 😉

__________________
OLD TIMER

Posted by Boondok Kennels on 12-09-2023 12:56 PM:

Sounds like I would like Chance. You can pm me his breeding, if you would. I would be interested in seeing the ped on him. Thanks, didn’t mean to hijack this thread.
Bob

Posted by Dave Richards on 12-09-2023 04:25 PM:

Re: Boondocks,

quote:
Originally posted by OLD TIMER
I think you would like Blakesley’s Northern Chance.
He has that old bawl mouth on track that “shakes the leafs” off the tree. Has a great nose that can work those feeder tracks on these cold frozen nights up here. Opens when he smells it and doesn’t stand on his head but opens enough so you don’t need to get the tracker out to know what’s happening. Fun to listen to him work a feeding track over down trees, across creeks and then as he starts to really sing, it’s a “concert” that would make any true hound people proud. Then comes 3 long dying locates that roll over to a steady chop. No jacking the tree, no ivory showing, no acting like he’s got crazy, just a steady chop until you get there. If it’s a small tree he’ll be standing at the base, on a larger tree he’ll have his front feet up and he’ll be looking up. Of all the trees we’ve made this fall there has been only one that I didn’t look at eyes.
Not everyone’s type for sure, but I started hunting in 1956 and I have NEVER done it for a Title-Trophy or Money, but for the CONCERT. That’s something an ambush dog doesn’t give you. 😉

Chance is exactly the type of dog that suits me in every way, mouth, accuracy, tree style, disposition, etc. He is the type of dog that made me love coon hunting. Wish I was younger and had a dog like Chance. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by OLD TIMER on 12-09-2023 07:22 PM:

Mr Richard’s—

When you take “non-hunters” out and he opens and they say, “What a mouth-I sure love it”. You then know you got something special.

__________________
OLD TIMER

Posted by Boondok Kennels on 12-10-2023 09:40 AM:

Old Timer,
What is Chance’s pedigree?

Posted by OLD TIMER on 12-10-2023 12:57 PM:

Boondok

Chance-

Andersons Scout X Andersons Blossom

Scout carries Hayes, T-Top, Fire Ball, and lots of OW Hills bear hounds.

Blossom carries Red Oak Mike, Tioga Valley, Outlaw, Cedarfork Valley, Turpin and some that were born here going back to Cheta II that I got for Red Blakesley.

__________________
OLD TIMER

Posted by Boondok Kennels on 12-10-2023 03:46 PM:

Old Timer,
If you would, give me a call. I’d like to chat a bit about Chance. 716-864-5712.
Bob

Posted by Dave Richards on 12-10-2023 09:07 PM:

Re: Mr Richard’s—

quote:
Originally posted by OLD TIMER
When you take “non-hunters” out and he opens and they say, “What a mouth-I sure love it”. You then know you got something special.

Chance is definitely the type of dog that coon hunting is all about, at least to me. The thrill of listening to a dog trailing a track with a good mouth never gets old to me. Love a chop mouth tree dog like Chance and the icing on the cake is accuracy as you described. I can not stand a dog that misses very often. These mountains are way to steep to chase a slick treer. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-17-2023 06:45 PM:

Is an ambush style dog smarter or lazier?

Posted by DL NH on 12-17-2023 10:14 PM:

Neither…………it is what it was predestined to be at conception.

__________________
Dan

Posted by Preacher Tom on 12-18-2023 03:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Is an ambush style dog smarter or lazier?

Sure don't claim to be an expert on this but to me a true ambush dog moves thru the woods with speed looking for the hot track. Most cover a lot of ground and may be a good ways from you when they tree. Of course a really good coon population affects this. They don't slow down enough to even smell a cold track. Just my thoughts.

__________________
Tom Wood

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2023 04:23 PM:

Do they move through the woods or run a trail or path or the edge of a field?

Posted by Preacher Tom on 12-18-2023 05:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Do they move through the woods or run a trail or path or the edge of a field?

Richard I think running the edges can be an issue with some of these dogs but if you've got coon they can tree coon fast. They are not my type of dog but I can appreciate what they do.

__________________
Tom Wood

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