UKC Forums - Grain Free= Heart Disease..?

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Posted by Cory Highfill on 06-30-2019 01:41 AM:

Grain Free= Heart Disease..?

Interesting that the FDA is implying that there may be a link between heart disease and certain grain-free dogfood. You be the judge:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dog-fo...-investigation/

Posted by Dave Richards on 06-30-2019 03:15 AM:

Cory

I suspect that the problems are associated with the quality of the non grain items in these feeds. Hormone laced meat products, hormones not needed by healthily animals and are not killed by cooking. Imo. Dave

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Posted by Cory Highfill on 06-30-2019 04:05 AM:

I'll be interested to see how this plays out. I jumped on the no corn, no grain bandwagon initially, but am reconsidering what I think I know about dogfood, and I'm trying to sort this all out like everyone else is. Several of the feeds listed that I recognize are "higher end" feeds, and it really makes me wonder about the quality (and quantity) of whatever may be replacing grain or corn in the feed I use.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-30-2019 12:54 PM:

It is starting to look like corn may be good for dogs after all. I wonder if the dog food companies just tried to brainwash everyone so they could charge more for meat based dog food when the price of corn went up? If corn is bad for dogs then why did we feed it for 100 yrs with no problems? We have only been feeding corn free or meat based for 10 yrs and we already have problems. If corn is bad for you, why are all of those corn fed Midwestern girls so pretty and so healthy?

Posted by Kler Kry on 06-30-2019 02:39 PM:

Grains In Dog Food

Uncooked grains in dog foods are bad. Fully cooked and gelatinized starch in dog feed is a good source of natural energy, carbohydrates and vitamins which totally meat based foods may lack.

Posted by oklared on 06-30-2019 10:17 PM:

DOGS DO NOT EAT GRAIN NATURALY, NUFF SAID

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Posted by pamjohnson on 06-30-2019 10:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by oklared
DOGS DO NOT EAT GRAIN NATURALY, NUFF SAID

that's not all together true either.

Posted by Reuben on 07-01-2019 01:09 AM:

A dog is carnivorous just like a wolf or coyote...in the wild they eat natural meat that is fresh and not contaminated with hormones and that poison they give animals to put them down...and other medications in trying to save an animal and when they die they make them into dog food...don’t know this as fact but have read comments of this nature in the past...

Carnivores are meat eaters yet when a rabbit is caught by a coyote the internals are eaten as well...the intervals is predigested and digested vegetation on account rabbits are vegetarian...right now it seems the dog foods with corn in them are the lesser of the two negatives...

I have been using a corn based dog food and the dogs are doing well...I am also thinking a raw chicken quarter twice a week along with the corn based dog food...

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Posted by DL NH on 07-01-2019 01:51 AM:

I watched one of my coonhounds years ago pull ears of corn off the stocks and eat it many nights when hunting. Her mother I had to watch closely if she was loose in the yard she'd take ripe tomatoes off the vines in the garden and eat them. Heave had a number of dogs that would eat wild apples too. Dogs will eat a lot of things that many people don't realize they do.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 07-01-2019 01:51 AM:

Now days if the animal, beef or whatever it may be if it can't stand up on it's own without any help it may not be used for dog food.
Even wolves, coyote, fox will eat corn, berries, vegetation, acorns etc.

Posted by Reuben on 07-01-2019 02:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
Now days if the animal, beef or whatever it may be if it can't stand up on it's own without any help it may not be used for dog food.
Even wolves, coyote, fox will eat corn, berries, vegetation, acorns etc.

Yes they do but they are in the carnivores group... I am thinking that they are missing certain nutrients when they eat this way or maybe they are just hungry...

If we were to feed a dog straight corn he wouldn’t do very well...

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Posted by Dave Richards on 07-01-2019 03:20 AM:

Feed

Animals need protein and carbs just like humans do, meat is protein and does not provide the carbs needed. Animals will eat berries and grain if given a chance. Dog feed with protein and a source of carbs is a better choice than a straight protein or meat based diet, just saying! Dave

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Posted by Driftwoodblue on 07-01-2019 02:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
I watched one of my coonhounds years ago pull ears of corn off the stocks and eat it many nights when hunting. Her mother I had to watch closely if she was loose in the yard she'd take ripe tomatoes off the vines in the garden and eat them. Heave had a number of dogs that would eat wild apples too. Dogs will eat a lot of things that many people don't realize they do.

I have trail camera pictures of coyotes eating lots of apples under my trees.. also a few years back a fellow called me about "coons' eating his sweet corn..LOL! yes I did catch some there 13 to be exact but the damage continued...
after a pretty good rain I went down to see what was going on.. I found lots of coyote tracks there and in the patch I found a pile of corn ears that the tracks clearly showed the coyotes had brought them to one spot to eat them...
they will eat about anything.

I think where corn gets a bad name is it is often not cooked to provide optimum nutrition.I visited with one fellow that has a dog food company and runs english pointers.. I ask him about the no grain vs the formulas using grain.. the told me point blank he feeds the type with corn in it and that a lot of the push for grain free was so some promoters could charge more.

I know the first good hound I has got a lot of ground corn cooked with water and just a bit of meat and bone meal in it,, sometimes he got a half rabbit---- lots of tape worms with that! he did live to be 13 years old.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-01-2019 02:21 PM:

My wife has a little terrier mix that will eat almost anything that you drop in the floor while cooking. She loves raw carrots. She also loves corn, especially popcorn. She loves Fritoes and will eat potatoes but prefers potatoe chips. But she won't eat onions. Canned green beans are great for a sick or pregnant dog. As I said, dog food companies are using "meat based" to sell us higher priced dog food and make more money. "Meat based" sounds great and a picture of a wolf on the bag looks great but I bet that they don't have any real research that shows it is better for dogs than grain based. The vegetarians have been trying to tell us for years that red meat is not good for us.

Posted by Autumn Clements on 07-01-2019 05:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by oklared
DOGS DO NOT EAT GRAIN NATURALY, NUFF SAID

They don’t eat potatoes or lentils though either

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Posted by Autumn Clements on 07-01-2019 05:31 PM:

I don’t think there’s any actual proof that grain free is directly linked to heart disease. I know multiple people who have feed grain free foods for quite some time with no issues, some having breeds known for DCM.
I wish I could feed completely raw but don’t have the knowledge, resources or money to do so. Mine currently eat Acana and Purina Pro Plan.

Posted by shadinc on 07-01-2019 05:53 PM:

My friend set up a trail camera to see what was eating the oranges off his trees. It was coyotes.

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Posted by Jay Chadwick on 07-01-2019 08:01 PM:

GMO Grains? Closing down the US horse slaughter market? idk...

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Posted by Cleo on 07-01-2019 09:38 PM:

I have 3, 15 year olds that have survived their entire lives on Pro Plan and occasional pieces of rabbit poop from yard scavenging.

Go figure.....

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 07-01-2019 10:31 PM:

gotta laugh at some of the posts people make about dog feed/ to way they stand to pee. lot of unknown knowledge on this board. fig just feed them what ever they will eat. worked for decades before so many people got educated about dogs

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 07-01-2019 10:42 PM:

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Posted by Kler Kry on 07-04-2019 11:22 PM:

Re: Grains In Dog Food

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
Uncooked grains in dog foods are bad. Fully cooked and gelatinized starch in dog feed is a good source of natural energy, carbohydrates and vitamins which totally meat based foods may lack.

I spent 34 years designing, managing, operating large animal feed manufacturings. The main problem with all meat dog food manufacturing is the there is a wide margin of quality between semi-loads of meat ingredients. It is not uncommon for the laboratory analysis to vary 20%. This results in a wide variation in the analysis of the dog food. Manufacturer often formulate the food using the low level of the ingredient as they have to meet a minimum guaranteed analysis. But if the meat meal is 20% higher than normal in analysis then the food can have undesireable effects on the dog. etc. iodine, salt as well as protein, fat and fiber. Plant origin ingredient and manufactured food ingredients have a much lower analysis variable of 3% or less. The analysis of the dog food id usually not back from the laboratory before ol' Rover eats it.

Posted by Ghost14 on 07-05-2019 06:13 PM:

So in other words, dog food companies went to plant based proteins because they are more easily manufactured due to having less variability. Or more easily standardized thus having a more stable quality control. So what started out as a noble idea in meat based foods, became a logistical nightmare once they started manufacturing it. Having to find a way to cut corners to keep cost affordable or worse yet use a product that can have 20% swings in the nutritional range.
Sounds exactly like every business model I’ve ever seen. They marketed it beautifully too. To bad, we as a public are so prone to jump on the bandwagon. Maybe we could have avoided all these thyroid problems and health issues. Not to mention those who discovered another upper with the newfound thyroid pill availability.
Glad mine still eat good ol’ corn based dog food. Not sure I could keep up with them if they had a specialty feed!

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Posted by shadinc on 07-06-2019 12:52 AM:

I bought two bags of Purina Dog Chow today. That makes about 60 years in a row. They're fat and slick and tree coons. I never won the world hunt but, I hunt blue ticks so it's probably not the dog food"s fault.

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