UKC Forums - What makes a dog inconsistent?

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 10-10-2013 01:59 PM:

What makes a dog inconsistent?

Anyone ever had a dog that had all the tools and was capable of the job but was just crazy inconsistent? or never got better? I have one I am about to give up on that has a lot of good tools, kennel perfect, goes hunting, good mouth, great locate, good treedog. She will tree any turnout you give her and has treed 10-15 wild coon herself....very accurate...the problem is too many times you take her hunting and she just tracks around, never getting treed...not fast out of the country tracks, just steady like a coon and eventually when you can't take it anymore you have to go get her.....any thoughts??

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Posted by pamjohnson on 10-10-2013 02:14 PM:

try hunting her with a trash free old dog. just because its steady like a coon doesn't make it coon.

Posted by T Burton on 10-10-2013 04:22 PM:

Re: What makes a dog inconsistent?

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
Anyone ever had a dog that had all the tools and was capable of the job but was just crazy inconsistent? or never got better? I have one I am about to give up on that has a lot of good tools, kennel perfect, goes hunting, good mouth, great locate, good treedog. She will tree any turnout you give her and has treed 10-15 wild coon herself....very accurate...the problem is too many times you take her hunting and she just tracks around, never getting treed...not fast out of the country tracks, just steady like a coon and eventually when you can't take it anymore you have to go get her.....any thoughts??

Man up make em finish I've feel asleep listening to mine when she was young not all have natural ability to just fly May be striking above her head I don't go save them or myself from misury you might get in there with em look for tracks make them move on when standing on there head.

Posted by Darrell Eads on 10-10-2013 05:07 PM:

go run her down and whip her when shes tracking to long , cut her right in the same woods , its not a coon when they don't get treed , I been dealing with the same thing ,

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Posted by Tom Jones on 10-10-2013 05:11 PM:

lol

how olds the dog?

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 10-10-2013 05:25 PM:

Re: lol

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Jones
how olds the dog?

16 months

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Posted by Walkers 223 on 10-10-2013 05:44 PM:

I had a dog do that a lot when he was young. I'd sit on a log and just wait. When he would throw a locate I'd sneak in quick and find out if it was trash or a coon. After a little bit of that to build confidence and fed him some coons he quickly turned into the most consistent accurate dog I've owned, sometimes it's hard to stay patient but experience and time is their best teacher. Being 16 months I'd def give some more time. Good luck

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Posted by Tom Jones on 10-10-2013 06:46 PM:

jmo

not sure if you raised the dog or what but generally when a pup first puts it all togather and is looking like a super pup they are going off natraul instinkes (sp) and not doing any thinking so to speak. Then it seems with more and more hunting they can some what slump as they are thinking and really tring to put it all togather. If you have seen the young dog do really good work chances are it will come back and get consistent.

cage coons mess up way to many dogs imo

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 10-10-2013 06:52 PM:

Thanks Tom. She only really saw one cage coon and that was a year ago. I released liked 10-12 for her in the spring and early summer and she tracked the furthest one 350 yards treed and had the meat. Throughout the early sping into early summer she treed several wild ones on her own (a couple that just make you say wow!!) and was only hunted with another dog maybe 3-4 times.

After the foilage came on it really just fell apart. I just spent quite a few hours watching a dog that didn't progress......but turn loose another coon and she would tree it like she had done it a 100 times. Just so odd to me that a dog that is doing so well, just stops.

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Posted by perry co cooner on 10-10-2013 06:54 PM:

What kind of country are you hunting? It could be running rabbits. I hunted with a guy one time that had a year old dog that just ran and ran and ran track I thought "good lord just tree the dang thing already" never did tree. I think it was just jumping from one track to another. Took me awhile to figure out what it was doing, it's hard to see rabbits at night.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 10-10-2013 07:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by perry co cooner
What kind of country are you hunting? It could be running rabbits. I hunted with a guy one time that had a year old dog that just ran and ran and ran track I thought "good lord just tree the dang thing already" never did tree. I think it was just jumping from one track to another. Took me awhile to figure out what it was doing, it's hard to see rabbits at night.

so often this kinda thing happens with a youngster. ive seen them mess around on everything from mice to deer. its all new to them.

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 10-10-2013 07:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by perry co cooner
What kind of country are you hunting? It could be running rabbits. I hunted with a guy one time that had a year old dog that just ran and ran and ran track I thought "good lord just tree the dang thing already" never did tree. I think it was just jumping from one track to another. Took me awhile to figure out what it was doing, it's hard to see rabbits at night.

TOTAL possibility Al...the only thing that made me discount this idea was that the pups were raised loose a lot and in the summer I had a yard full of rabbits....I mean a bunch, and they never fussed with them there. Its a total possibility though.

Maybe i just need to get a little less tolerant..

......but am kinda at the point of not knowing what to do because I don't know what she is doing.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-10-2013 07:31 PM:

How old was she when you started hunting her? And @ 16 mo no more caged coon turned loose that's little puppy stuff.
Try hunting her with a good straight / not ill dog a few times & keep taking her by herself too & don't go pull her off a track unless you know she running junk which she could be...when she's just trailing around what pattern is she running in deer, coyotes, foxes & rabbits run in different patterns than coon .
If you've got a Garmin it's usually pretty easy to tell if you can't tell yourself & if you've got a shocker you can dump her right out where deer are @ & see what happens beep then bump & some require more.
If she's got all the other tools & has treed some on her own & you like her she may just require a little extra patience & time epecially if she hasn't been started for very long.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 10-10-2013 07:40 PM:

Just a thought.
Maybe she is running some tracks backwards.

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 10-10-2013 07:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
How old was she when you started hunting her? And @ 16 mo no more caged coon turned loose that's little puppy stuff.
Try hunting her with a good straight / not ill dog a few times & keep taking her by herself too & don't go pull her off a track unless you know she running junk which she could be...when she's just trailing around what pattern is she running in deer, coyotes, foxes & rabbits run in different patterns than coon .
If you've got a Garmin it's usually pretty easy to tell if you can't tell yourself & if you've got a shocker you can dump her right out where deer are @ & see what happens beep then bump & some require more.
If she's got all the other tools & has treed some on her own & you like her she may just require a little extra patience & time epecially if she hasn't been started for very long.

She was started early last spring. Late march/early April if I remember right. I know there was no leaves on the trees. I know for about a month there she was running and treeing a coon about everytime out. I was on top of the world. She hunts ok with her mother, but they push each other and generally go about twice as far twice as fast than need be....and boy that makes me nuts.

Last tuesday I happened to catch a coon in the yard and turned it out..ran and treed no problem. Took her thursday and ran and treed 270 yards came up with a coon.....then sunday spend an hour in the corn barking around doing nothing.....there are coon around and I have really nice hunting. I guess I am just expecting more for as much work as I have put into her. With all the tools its so hard to give up.....but I cant' take man more nights of that when her mother is at home begging to get out!

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Posted by daryl wyland on 10-10-2013 09:34 PM:

Maybe she's winding lay ups & she just don't have a tree to satisfy her

Posted by walker1978 on 10-11-2013 02:59 AM:

well let me say this, I got one just like that. to much nose and not enough brains to put it together. I only say that cause im guess she also wont tree a empty tree. I bet you wont get her straighten out. but if you do come get mine and ill pay you to fix her. I spent 2 years on mine cause I seen a lot of good things but she hunted way to hard, just seemed like she was to much track and not enough tree. don't get me wrong she can blow the top out of a tree but only when she wanted to. its almost like she is ocd. Haha. I would try to hunt her for only 1 or 2 hours a night. maybe she will hurry up and tree . only giving her a short time to figure it out might make her try to hurry up and stop messing around on track.all I can say is good luck and I hope you get her going good.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-11-2013 09:00 AM:

Is she mainly just hanging up on tracks in the corn? Corn can be difficult for young dogs ...they got to learn how to get one up & running out of there . Time & persistance. And unforchantly some dogs are just better track dogs than others. I've got one here that I'm training for a guy some nights looks like a million bucks but he is not the track driving dog like a couple of other dogs I have & never will be I can break him of bad habits help him in numerous other ways but there is only so much a trainer can do.
The corn will soon be all cut, the leaves are gonna fall & coon season is just right around the corner ...the perfect time to have a young dog.
Time will tell if she's gonna make what suits you.

Posted by Chet McCreary on 10-11-2013 09:44 AM:

She could be having trouble with kitten coon. A lot of dogs have trouble with them.. She could also be hot nosed....You can get a dog so they only can work a red hot track.If releasing to many coon for them to tree. I only do that 2-3 times at the most. The more you do that can cause problems like your dog is having. She is also around 16-18 months old some dogs will back slide at about that age...Dogs that run track and don't do much with them. Can also be running off game like possums catching them and killing it... Ive seen dogs run mink and muskrats along creeks.....((If she was my dog)). Id hunt her with a nice broke dog. When they tree chain her back and knock the coon out to the broke dog. Let het watch what the old dog is doing. Don't let her touch a coon until shes treeing with the old dog...Don't do anymore released coon, drags or cage coon...

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 10-11-2013 09:53 AM:

Ron,

Lots of maybe and might be....

The fact is that the longer you hunt her and she does not make forward progress, the harder forward progress becomes. Dogs learn by repetition, so whatever action you decide to take, do so quickly before a bad habit becomes ingrained. It is a lot easier to not allow a dog to learn a bad habit then it is to break them off of one and teach them a new habit.

I truly think that your little female may not have "all the tools" that you think she does. I've seen dogs that looked great from night to night, and even a couple that looked great at certain times of the night, and like a steaming pile at others. The common denominator in all of them was that they looked good when conditions came to them. Most of them lacked enough nose and brains to track in tough conditions. So when everything worked in their favor, they were explosive and did a nice job, but when the going got "tough"....well they didn't do very well to put it lightly. Ive seen dogs that could tree coon all winter, but just could not get it done in "green season" hunting.

Try to step back and look at the situation critically and don't get kennel blind. Do what you need to make sure that she is not trashing on you, but if she can't run trash any better than you describe, she's not much of a track dog..... Be honest with yourself about her capabilities and try to locate the "hole".

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 10-11-2013 11:23 AM:

Thank you so much for all the responses, and Oak Ridge I totally agree with you and that was a very good response. I guess at the end of the day you do what you can and take a dog hunting.....it either starts running and treeing coon or it doesn't...and thats the straight up bottom line!! I guess really to answer my own question "what makes a dog inconsistent?" Does it matter the reason? not really, inconsistent is inconsistent and thats just not acceptable for any reason!!

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Posted by Jesse Bedward on 10-11-2013 02:33 PM:

i had a redbone that did this same thing....

he wasnt chasing trash, he wasnt back tracking, he was just plain out slow and taking to cold of tracks for what he could do at that age. he was round the same age as ur dog also. i just left him go till he treed no matter how long it took, and if he had a coon id shoot it out if he had a den id just leash and walk away. i just kept hunting him, and i road hunted him after every slow track he would take to get him running fast as he could go before he struck, made him take hotter tracks. he started to learn hot tracks = coon. by the time he was 5 that dog could tree a hot or cold coon in the same amount of time. every track he took seemed to take the same 15 minutes every time and was always accurate. push the dog for hot tracks by road hunting him around fields, creeks, the woods, or a back gravel road. you will see that the energy and movement pass onto the dog that moving fast is the method of the hunt. hope it helps. i know it worked for me. thanks

Posted by JiM on 10-11-2013 02:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
Thank you so much for all the responses, and Oak Ridge I totally agree with you and that was a very good response. I guess at the end of the day you do what you can and take a dog hunting.....it either starts running and treeing coon or it doesn't...and thats the straight up bottom line!! I guess really to answer my own question "what makes a dog inconsistent?" Does it matter the reason? not really, inconsistent is inconsistent and thats just not acceptable for any reason!!

Day in and day out, Joe prolly makes as much sense as anyone on here.

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Posted by Jackson87 on 10-11-2013 09:14 PM:

Yep a lot of good responses.Joe has a really good answer.What kind of conditions are you hunting in?Ive seen several dogs struggle around here this summer due to dry conditions at times and coon just flat out ant stirring right.Not many tracks in the mudd and no coons seen sitting up anywhere.Not sure why.

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