UKC Forums - heres an ethics question.

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Posted by wrinkletreebrut on 01-01-2008 11:53 PM:

heres an ethics question.

your judging a cast all dogs treed on same tree. however coon is seen 2 trees over, If cast can show you an obvious way for coon to travel from tree to tree (i.e. limbs twining together, grapevines etc.) would you plus the points? or minus them because coon was not in tree dogs were treeing on.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 01-02-2008 12:27 AM:

Some would plus it and some would not. You have to draw a stopping point somewhere!!!! Heck lots of trees around here touch for hundreds of yards on creek banks.. I will plus one 1 tree over if its the right situation. Maybe 2 trees but I'd just have to see it but not likely anymore than 2....

Posted by matlock kennels on 01-02-2008 12:35 AM:

coons moving through trees

I would say if it was where a coon could move from tree to tree by way of the limbs of trees around were the dogs were to give them + points.If cast cannot see how the coon could travel through the trees a get away from were the dogs were treeing -points on all dogs. Have had coon in live trap and went to the woods and turned it out and watch it go across a creek through the trees and end up three or four trees away from where it went up in the frist tree.If it is a young coon they might would do that but a old coon will stay in the tree he/she went up.

Posted by HOBO on 01-02-2008 12:51 AM:

If you were pleasure hunting and would knock it out to your dogs and tell them what a good job they did then I say plus it. If you would get after them then I say minus.

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Posted by larrypoe on 01-02-2008 01:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
If you were pleasure hunting and would knock it out to your dogs and tell them what a good job they did then I say plus it. If you would get after them then I say minus.

Thats exactly the line of thought I use when judging.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 01-02-2008 02:15 AM:

MINUS !

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Posted by T.Beyer on 01-02-2008 02:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
If you were pleasure hunting and would knock it out to your dogs and tell them what a good job they did then I say plus it. If you would get after them then I say minus.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Next thing you know, those same people will want to Plus a tree with only a hole in it.

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 01-02-2008 02:37 AM:

limbs

The problem i see at hunts with this is that if a branch is touching everyone wants it plussed but i have had guys try to plus a tree with a twig touching that a field mouse could'nt cross i agree with hobo

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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 01-02-2008 02:39 AM:

I've watched coons cross by walking out to the tip of a limb and ride it down several feet and grab the tip of a limb in the next tree over. I was shooting the limbs out from under them so they were looking somewhere to go.
That said, on a nite hunt you must show a definite crossing route before I will vote to plus it. Coons don't usually cross over with out a stout limb or vine unless really hunted hard and being in the tree means dieing.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-02-2008 12:38 PM:

Just four nights ago, the dogs ran a HOT track in to a tree...they were not but about a 100 yards from us, and we went directly to them.

I stood and watched that coon cross from the tree they were treeing on, into the tree to the right of it....NOTHING TOUCHING, but the coon used his weight and gravity to get to the next tree over. When he got to the end of the limb, it bent downwards and touched quite nicely....but when he crossed over, the limb missed by a foot......

While we were tying dogs up, I looked up and the coon was crossing into yet the NEXT tree.

So having seen this with my very own eyes.....I know that it can happen. I know that it seldom does.

To me, the question is not "Did the coon cross", but rather "could the coon cross".

I would have to see the trees and the "route" before I could answer your question.

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Posted by on 01-02-2008 03:14 PM:

Joe you make a good spokesman for the Walker Breed.

Posted by Backswamp Fred on 01-02-2008 03:24 PM:

How about looking at it this way. If it was a posssum would you minus it?

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Posted by Jerry Moll on 01-02-2008 03:29 PM:

I have seen a boardwalk through a window and a horsefly through a screen door.

But, before you’ll get me to plus your coon or my coon in a different tree other than the one they are treed on you’ll have to show me an OBVIOUS route of travel. Not a twig or a leaf…

Posted by on 01-02-2008 03:35 PM:

Two trees over? I draw the line at the next tree over. They can climb through 3, they can climb through 13, alot of things are possible. I satisfy myself with being consistant on how I vote a tree. I may or may not vote to plus a coon in the next tree over but I never vote to plus one 2 trees over. That's just me, not saying they makes it right or wrong.

Posted by Sandman on 01-02-2008 03:38 PM:

What really gets me is when this happens and the dog treed for 25 is on the next tree over on the tree the coon is in and the other 3 won't to say it is one tree. I think if the one dog can get on the right tree the others could too!

Posted by DEREK CHAPKO on 01-02-2008 03:54 PM:

olny plus it if there is a log or fallen tree thew both trees maybe a leaner if not there slick boys !!!!!!!! cut them lose maybe they will do it right if they were wrong

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Posted by 1939 on 01-02-2008 04:36 PM:

The only ethics question I see here is, "how would you vote if you had first tree?"

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-02-2008 05:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Joe you make a good spokesman for the Walker Breed.

Bruce,

I said I saw it happen.....

I said I'd seen it with my own eyes.....

What I did not say is how I would vote!

Again, I'd have to see the "route".....

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Posted by elvis on 01-02-2008 06:00 PM:

the original post says the handlers showed the judge a place the coon could OBVIOUSLY have crossed.
I think you have to honestly judge each situation accordingly, I dont agree with "drawing a line" at one tree over. we have all seen grapevines as big as your arm grow thru several trees.
i seriously doubt the coon knows how many trees over he is,he just keeps climbing.

I see a lot of guys doubt if your coon crossed out,but garantee their coon crossed out because when ol rover comes on a tree like that,hes got the meat.

i agree with hobo to a certain extent. judge it like you would if you were pleasure hunting. the problem is ive seen a lot of guys lie to themselves about what their dog did even when pleasure hunting.

in my opinion,to stay within the rules,you must vote if its OBVIOUS the coon COULD have crossed. Not wheather you think it did or not.

Posted by HOBO on 01-02-2008 06:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis

i agree with hobo to a certain extent. judge it like you would if you were pleasure hunting. the problem is ive seen a lot of guys lie to themselves about what their dog did even when pleasure hunting.

Elvis you promised me you'd never talk about that...

LOL

Posted by Philip on 01-02-2008 07:36 PM:

depends how the vote goes, and go with the way it was voted on right or wrong.

Posted by Larry Atherton on 01-02-2008 07:54 PM:

"the problem is ive seen a lot of guys lie to themselves about what their dog did even when pleasure hunting," geeze ain't this the truth!LOL

I told my wife a long time ago that if she ever heard me brag or stretch the truth about our dogs or kids that she had the right to give me a good swift kick in the behind.

To answer the question, it is a judgemental thing that depends on what I see. I agree with Joe and others about how coons can cross, but if it ain't clear it falls into the category of that's just another bad break.

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Posted by Backswamp Fred on 01-02-2008 08:23 PM:

Now nobody has said, what they would do if it was possum. Because they know they would not see him and and would circle the tree. I belive in giving the dog the benfit of the doubt, but if in doubt would you be so quick to minus the same dogs. As you would be to find away to plus him?

Posted by Gene Raines on 01-03-2008 03:30 AM:

Minus them on slick tree. Plus the dog that is on the tree under the coon, and cut all dogs back loose. I guarantee if it was a possum you would be minusing the dog that was under it and either minus the others for a slick(not possum), or cicle it if leaves are on.
If all dogs were on that one tree and obvious path for possum/coon then maybe, but 2 trees over I would beat mine pleasure hunting and put him back in there.

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