UKC Forums - one min. rule ?

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Posted by johnny altman on 10-26-2014 08:20 PM:

one min. rule ?

can someone explain the one min. rule on strikeing your dog? i can not find it in rule book or on score card

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-26-2014 08:25 PM:

During the first minute you are not required to strike your dog on or before the third bark. You may strike if you wish but it is not required.

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Posted by msinc on 10-26-2014 08:41 PM:

You can find it on the scorecard under Scratching Offenses, 6. J. says, On second offense if handler fails to strike dog on or before the third bark, after the first minute, each time dog{s} is released.

You can also find it discussed at length in "The Advisor" on page 62 and 63.

I guess my question is, other than finding it, what part of the rule don't you understand???

Posted by Dogwhisper on 10-26-2014 08:46 PM:

rule: 4(d)

Posted by johnny altman on 10-26-2014 08:47 PM:

so i can strike my dog with in the first min. every drop if i choose to and nothing bad can happen to me ?
i was not i could not

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 10-26-2014 08:50 PM:

U will get "called out" on babbling " if " it warrants it.

Posted by Slowpoke 2012 on 10-26-2014 09:05 PM:

1 minute rule

I've had judges tell me if you strike within the minute your dog must carry that track out or your minused your track. But that is not true.

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Posted by johnny altman on 10-26-2014 09:13 PM:

Slowpoke2012...I agree with you I don't see in the rules where they can do that. I think people are misunderstanding this rule

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 10-26-2014 09:19 PM:

This rule is left to be applied per :..."a judgment call".....by any cast member. Subject to a cast vote or applied by a nonhunting judge.

Strike at your own risk.!

Posted by johnny altman on 10-26-2014 09:41 PM:

does it say that in wtiting somewhere? if so where

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Posted by STROKIN on 10-26-2014 10:04 PM:

Easiest if send dogs across an open field and if they open up and just racing, then it's obvious that they are babbling.

Posted by msinc on 10-26-2014 10:40 PM:

"I've had judges tell me if you strike within the minute your dog must carry that track out or your minused your track. But that is not true."

quote:
Originally posted by johnny altman
Slowpoke2012...I agree with you I don't see in the rules where they can do that. I think people are misunderstanding this rule

If I understand you guys correctly you believe that you can strike your dog before the one minute is up and that dog is not held accountable for the strike??? Because the minute wasn't up???
Sorry guys, it don't work that way. You do not have to call your dog for the first minute if he opens, but...if you elect to call him struck then that dog is fully accountable by the rules for that track. Same as any other dog called struck any other time.

"U will get "called out" on babbling " if " it warrants it."

Yep, and you will get minused if he quits the track and comes back or fails to bark in the required time, 8 minutes.

Posted by jkidd1 on 10-26-2014 11:50 PM:

"Points will be minused"
Rule 4(c)

Dog(s) declared struck and determined to be babbling*

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Posted by msinc on 10-27-2014 01:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by STROKIN
Easiest if send dogs across an open field and if they open up and just racing, then it's obvious that they are babbling.

Not sure I get this...a raccoon just cannot go out into an open field??? In Indiana of all places??? What happens if they leave trailing and end up on a tree with a coon???

Posted by jdgher on 10-27-2014 02:09 AM:

Here is another way of looking at it.

The minute rule was put in place to protect dogs from the babbling rule. If you hunt a babbler then you can wait and not strike them. You can wait one minute from the time the dogs are cut loose.
If you choose to strike them under the minute that is fine, but if the judge or majority of the cast decide your dog was babbling, then you are subject to the babbling rule.

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Posted by johnny altman on 10-27-2014 02:11 AM:

hard to prove a dog is babbleng when you hunting around feeders

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Posted by GA DAWG on 10-27-2014 02:24 AM:

Re: Here is another way of looking at it.

quote:
Originally posted by jdgher
The minute rule was put in place to protect dogs from the babbling rule. If you hunt a babbler then you can wait and not strike them. You can wait one minute from the time the dogs are cut loose.
If you choose to strike them under the minute that is fine, but if the judge or majority of the cast decide your dog was babbling, then you are subject to the babbling rule.

I as a judge can minus one just as quick after the min as during it. The one min rule is for the excited dog so he just barked for about 15 sec after cutting loose. So you wouldnt have to strike it. Actually it means nothing as for babbling. Lots think it does though. They think if they wait that min they are safe. Thats not the case at all.

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Posted by JiM on 10-27-2014 02:33 AM:

Re: Re: Here is another way of looking at it.

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
I as a judge can minus one just as quick after the min as during it. The one min rule is for the excited dog so he just barked for about 15 sec after cutting loose. So you wouldnt have to strike it. Actually it means nothing as for babbling. Lots think it does though. They think if they wait that min they are safe. Thats not the case at all.

There yah go. That about covers it. The minute rule has nothing to do with the babbling rule and the babbling rule has nothing to do with the minute.

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Posted by Slowpoke 2012 on 10-27-2014 02:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
"I've had judges tell me if you strike within the minute your dog must carry that track out or your minused your track. But that is not true."

If I understand you guys correctly you believe that you can strike your dog before the one minute is up and that dog is not held accountable for the strike??? Because the minute wasn't up???
Sorry guys, it don't work that way. You do not have to call your dog for the first minute if he opens, but...if you elect to call him struck then that dog is fully accountable by the rules for that track. Same as any other dog called struck any other time.

"U will get "called out" on babbling " if " it warrants it."

Yep, and you will get minused if he quits the track and comes back or fails to bark in the required time, 8 minutes.

I was talking more like when your dog strikes(opens), then doesn't open again for say 200-300yds or a few minutes. I've had a judge tell me he didn't carry that track out of there, so he's minused. We put it to a vote and over ruled the judge, but he wasn't happy about it. The minute wasn't up, and we couldn't see the dogs either, but mine wasn't babbling. He might a few times right when you cut him, but after that he only opens on a track. But if someone strikes right off the leash, then yes they should get their minus 90% of the time.

Posted by GA DAWG on 10-27-2014 02:57 AM:

I dont hunt a false barker right now. If it barks in 3 seconds Im striking. Like I said the min has nothing to do with it. They should really just drop the min. Its almost worthless.

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Posted by msinc on 10-27-2014 02:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Slowpoke 2012
I was talking more like when your dog strikes(opens), then doesn't open again for say 200-300yds or a few minutes. I've had a judge tell me he didn't carry that track out of there, so he's minused. We put it to a vote and over ruled the judge, but he wasn't happy about it. The minute wasn't up, and we couldn't see the dogs either, but mine wasn't babbling. He might a few times right when you cut him, but after that he only opens on a track. But if someone strikes right off the leash, then yes they should get their minus 90% of the time.

O.K. Now I understand...I agree. Sometimes, especially if you have a cold nosed dog or one that is used as a rig dog they will wind a coon or pick up scent that other dogs may or may not smell. Then when cut loose they open but quiet down and find the track. To me this is not babbling. It is no different than some dogs that quiet down just before they tree. The dog wants to get it right, so instead of blasting off at the mouth they shut up and work.
All that said I believe babbling dogs are one of the biggest things that gets mishandled and cause a lot of confusion in the hunts. I have definitely seen dogs that babble but get struck and I know full well they didn't smell the coon they struck on 7 minutes and 59 seconds later. It is hard to prove and in trying some dogs get cheated. It's a double edged sword...a real babbler that cant be minused because he does find a quick coon and tree it gets over but a cold nosed dog that really does smell one and tree it gets the hammer.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 10-27-2014 10:26 PM:

Re: 1 minute rule

quote:
Originally posted by Slowpoke 2012
I've had judges tell me if you strike within the minute your dog must carry that track out or your minused your track. But that is not true.

Them judges been in to many other KC hunts

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 10-27-2014 10:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
I dont hunt a false barker right now. If it barks in 3 seconds Im striking. Like I said the min has nothing to do with it. They should really just drop the min. Its almost worthless.

Mike the rule was put into place for the excited hound that gets turned loose behind another that barks off the lease a few times and then realizes he/she hasn't been left after all. It happens all the time with young dogs that have not been worked with a lot, and we all know that every dog brought to a comp hunt is in tope ready condition. The rule has its place and is a good one when it is used within its intent.

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