UKC Forums - high tans

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Posted by Emily on 04-30-2013 03:01 PM:

high tans

Whenever I've seen a "high tan" hound, its owner considered it a Walker. However, an acquaintance who shows B&T's in the AKC, calls shelter hounds that I would ID as Walkers "high tan" B&T's.
I'm a redbone person, and don't have the experience to back up my opinion. Do B&T's ever throw high tans? Has anyone ever heard a hound called a "high tan" B&T?

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Posted by michael.magorian on 04-30-2013 03:19 PM:

Absolutely. If you look at old pictures, there were a lot of early black and tans that were high-tans. It later became an undesirable trait when they were trying to standardize the breed. A good friend of mine has a high-tan, that we are pretty sure is mostly a black and tan. Her litter mate was traditional in coloring, which makes me say they were both mostly black and tan for sure. There are a lot of leopards that will throw a high-tan appearance as well. It still definitely happens, but not as common as long ago.

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Posted by pegjerben on 04-30-2013 03:53 PM:

Emily, ask on the redbone board too. I have heard that phrase used in the redbone breed also.

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Posted by capt_agricultur on 04-30-2013 06:03 PM:

// Redbone Ralph

had a litter of Reg.. Redbones ..& 2 of them looked like B&Ts Gave them to E. Walker

Posted by Plott55 on 04-30-2013 08:39 PM:

Re: // Redbone Ralph

quote:
Originally posted by capt_agricultur
had a litter of Reg.. Redbones ..& 2 of them looked like B&Ts Gave them to E. Walker

All of the old Redbone & B&T men are gone now and their knowledge is second-hand!!!! I guess people like me would be called the second generation; My parents were born (father 1890-mother 1892) before the first Registrations took place. I met some of the older Breeders and Brooks Magill was may favorite

The old Saddle Back dogs in the start were RedBones.The Midnight stran had some Saddle Backs and W F Frisbee had some but it was bred out.
capt'_agricultur I don't your age but i know that no pure Redbone has B&T pups!!! If they have (Pumpkin seed) over their eyes, they are not pure RedBone.

The old pure Reg' AKC B&T's were never saddle back.

Posted by Emily on 04-30-2013 10:57 PM:

I've actually seen some of the B&T pups thrown from well-bred redbones. There's a nice looking one that lives near me. She's marked like a normal black and tan, but built more like a typical redbone than a typical black and tan. I would call her a black and tan if I didn't know who her parents were. Both her parents were well-bred redbones.
I find the old-fashioned saddlebacks charming. Not sure why the color became non-standard for redbones. Guess, at the time, some advocated making the saddlebacks a separate breed?

I guess there's no way to tell the breeding of a high tan just by looking at it?
Since the high tan Walkers meet breed standards and the high tan black and tans don't meet their breed's standard, and there are way more Walkers registered than B&Ts, is it fair to say there are more high tan Walkers than high tan B&T's? A lot more?

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Posted by Plott55 on 05-01-2013 01:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Emily
I've actually seen some of the B&T pups thrown from well-bred redbones. There's a nice looking one that lives near me. She's marked like a normal black and tan, but built more like a typical redbone than a typical black and tan. I would call her a black and tan if I didn't know who her parents were. Both her parents were well-bred redbones.
I find the old-fashioned saddlebacks charming. Not sure why the color became non-standard for redbones. Guess, at the time, some advocated making the saddlebacks a separate breed?

I guess there's no way to tell the breeding of a high tan just by looking at it?
Since the high tan Walkers meet breed standards and the high tan black and tans don't meet their breed's standard, and there are way more Walkers registered than B&Ts, is it fair to say there are more high tan Walkers than high tan B&T's? A lot more?

Emily; Its just bad that you didn't grow up back in the 30's and 40's like I did. You could understand this modern breeding a lot better.

I explained a few points on an above post, but i'm not going to say anymore.

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Posted by mike shannon on 05-01-2013 03:00 AM:

My walker

He is 4 times Hillbilly Mac and DNA VIP. My black and Tan buddy gives me a lot of bull....LOL

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Posted by oldman on 05-01-2013 03:39 AM:

wasn't hillbilly mac a single reg. dog,that may explain your dogs color

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 05-01-2013 05:56 AM:

buddy of mine is a die hard redbone man and he had a pup that was saddle back. the mom and dad are pure a snow redbones and all the other pups in the litter were red as red can be. this one little fella looked like a ol throw back saddle back that used to be common

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Posted by michael.magorian on 05-01-2013 02:58 PM:

Re: Re: // Redbone Ralph

quote:
Originally posted by Plott55

The old pure Reg' AKC B&T's were never saddle back.

Not trying to start an argument, but never say never. The AKC didn't recognize the black and tan breed until 1945, and by this time, the UKC had been registering black and tans for 42 years. The AKC standard is not that different than the UKC standard, in fact, just for fun I measured up my black and tan once and she meets breed standards in both registries, so it isn't like the AKC registry is a completely separate breed/strain.

Here are a couple of old adds showing purebred high-tan or saddle-backs.

Never say never.

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 05-02-2013 01:28 PM:

i have seen with crossing b&t and walkers a lot of high tan hounds. i personally owned one back in the late 80's. she was a tree dog for sure, but i was a hardcore walker guy then and she didn't stay around long. cross a walker and a B&T and see what you get...HIGH TAN

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Posted by Bluedogman on 05-02-2013 01:47 PM:

Re: My walker

quote:
Originally posted by mike shannon
He is 4 times Hillbilly Mac and DNA VIP. My black and Tan buddy gives me a lot of bull....LOL

Love this pic. I remember some "High Tans" . Think I read somewhere, sometime that it goes back to the Birdsong Hounds.

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Posted by jdgher on 05-02-2013 03:00 PM:

Re: My walker

quote:
Originally posted by mike shannon
He is 4 times Hillbilly Mac and DNA VIP. My black and Tan buddy gives me a lot of bull....LOL

Now that is a good looking coondog. 20 years ago, a friend of mine had a B&T that looked alot like that. One of the best coondogs I ever hunted with. He was a GRNTCH at 2 years old, he won a lot of hunts and produced a purina outstanding coondog of the year. If I drew out with you, I would worry I was forsure to get beat, just by looking at that dog.

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Posted by Ray&Luie on 05-02-2013 06:05 PM:

Re: My walker

quote:
Originally posted by mike shannon
He is 4 times Hillbilly Mac and DNA VIP. My black and Tan buddy gives me a lot of bull....LOL

I owned a Trig dog once that was colored like that ....
Petty Good dear Dog just mean as a snake , couldent getalong with nothin !! had a good cold nose , you could put his nose in track and heed take it from there if he could smell it heed try to trail it, turned him loose one morning he stayed gone all day, that afternoon we heard him Cold trailing out on a hill in some piney woods , he kept trailing tilll he jumped that Deer all alone , he trailed one nice Buck up while we was just knockin around waiting and talkin side the road.........Good dog his name was Sam

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Posted by Ray&Luie on 05-03-2013 05:37 PM:

Sam

wish i had anodern like em

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Posted by mike shannon on 05-04-2013 03:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by oldman
wasn't hillbilly mac a single reg. dog,that may explain your dogs color

Mac's dad Wagners Mr. Quick was single registered. Might be where the color comes from, but I don't care if they are pink and purple LOL as long as there is some Hillbilly Mac in there. My ole Cajun buddy told me Michael those coons don't hold no bench show when they are bein chased...lol.

Posted by robert54843 on 05-04-2013 04:10 AM:

Re: Re: My walker

If the dog on the bench is a high tan than I have one myself. looks identical. came from a walker and black n tan dog. very small dog too. 2 years old and weighs about 35 to 40 lbs

Posted by RED REBELS on 05-04-2013 07:07 PM:

Re: Re: // Redbone Ralph

quote:
Originally posted by Plott55
All of the old Redbone & B&T men are gone now and their knowledge is second-hand!!!! I guess people like me would be called the second generation; My parents were born (father 1890-mother 1892) before the first Registrations took place. I met some of the older Breeders and Brooks Magill was may favorite

The old Saddle Back dogs in the start were RedBones.The Midnight stran had some Saddle Backs and W F Frisbee had some but it was bred out.
capt'_agricultur I don't your age but i know that no pure Redbone has B&T pups!!! If they have (Pumpkin seed) over their eyes, they are not pure RedBone.

The old pure Reg' AKC B&T's were never saddle back.

I don't believe what he says about Redbones, I had a PR litter, and I had seen 3 gen of the mother, and DNA-VIP two pups from the litter (which was out of a WLDCH show dog) that one had a light saddle back, and I also know that the particuar bloodline CAN throw a B&T. as well as this litter of PR redbones, note the 3 B&T's.

ALSO there are "silver" redbones. sometimes genetics are to close or just throw an "off colored" breeders dont admit it but it happens, just like some plotts throw solid colors and some walkers throw a blue eye. it happens

here are some more PR "redbones" that were not registered but if bred will prolly throw more red pups than b&t

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 05-05-2013 03:24 PM:

Re: Re: My walker

quote:
Originally posted by Bluedogman
Love this pic. I remember some "High Tans" . Think I read somewhere, sometime that it goes back to the Birdsong Hounds.

look at the feet.the pic i have of them were of a walker looking
dog that came from pound tree dog and redbone.1965

Posted by chuck west on 05-05-2013 04:02 PM:

Re: Re: Re: My walker

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
look at the feet.the pic i have of them were of a walker looking
dog that came from pound tree dog and redbone.1965

I've been around awhile ,and I know what a redbone is. My question is what is a pound tree dog ?

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 05-05-2013 06:52 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: My walker

quote:
Originally posted by chuck west
I've been around awhile ,and I know what a redbone is. My question is what is a pound tree dog ?

cur that came out of the pound that would tree back in those
days just like today anything that will tree where you can catch
them they bred

Posted by Dirtdevil on 05-05-2013 07:22 PM:

In the coonhound world , high-tans have always described B&T's ... if a foxhound type was that color , it usually had just enough white to still be called a tri-color most usually ... the color isn't exclusive to B&T's .. but that term pretty much is .

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