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-- Circle Points??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=232112)

Circle Points???

I was wondering if getting rid of circle points when no coon is found would save alot of grief in the hunts. Coon is seen score it simple. Coon not seen dont score it simple works across the board. Saves alot of arguing. I have been in hunts where we will circle a leafy tree. Then next time the same guy wants somebody else minused. I am not saying this is the way to go just a thought. Nite Hunts might have more credibality then because dog had to have the meat.

Dont know about that. What if you have a do me-tooing on yours all night and yours finally gets to itself and has a den. It would hurt if a den tree lost the hunt for you.

Ya'll can rule yourself to death and its not gonna change one thing. There will always be people looking for an advantage and people claiming they got screwed, Thats just life.

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I am not saying it should be made a rule. However how do you hash out this leafy tree gets minus this next one is circle. I understand the den thing.

I dont want to get something moving. Just positive dialog

quote:

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Originally posted by Travis Eastman
I am not saying it should be made a rule. However how do you hash out this leafy tree gets minus this next one is circle. I understand the den thing.

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I'm familiar with idea that if one leafy tree is circled, they should all be circled. And if one leafy tree is minused, they should all be minused. I have never and will never get sucked into that amatuer game. They are what they are. I have one vote, everybody else has one vote. If I think a leafy tree is slick, I will vote to minus and the next leafy tree I may vote to circle. Each tree is an individual and I vote the tree as I see fit, you should do the same. It has nothing whatsoever to do with who's or what dog is under that tree. If you can put your light somewhere in that tree and show me where a coon could be hidden, I'll vote to circle. Scoring trees in the one place where you can't be consistant because every tree is different.

When people score trees based on how it benefits them, its a total breakdown of the cast. Might as well throw the scorecard away and go home.

I don't know what the solution is. As a club officer, I find out who and who won't get the scorecard or guide out of my club. But scoring trees is a simple majority type thing and thats the problem.

Nonhunting judges is not necessarily the answer, either.

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If they are there you will find them

If you could do all the hunt when the leaves were off the trees that would be the solution. I don't go to many hunt when the leaves are on because i get tired of circling slick trees.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jake Carey
If they are there you will find them

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I know a very avid competition hunter that had a Grand nite champion walker male. He looked me square in the eye one day and told me plainly.............. "it just doesn't do any good to put this dog in any hunts with the leaves off".

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Quote (If they are there you will find them)

Come hunt with me in my hunting territory, especially with the leaves on, and see if you can say that with a straight face when you go home! Bring ANY dog you want to!

With the leaves off you will find MOST of them but not all. With the leaves on you will not find 10% if they don't look. And don't blame the dog, the coon are usually there.

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Bill Harper
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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Not hardly!!

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I don't believe for a moment that you are going to find 100% of the coon that are treed with the leaves on...just because they are there. I DO believe that it is a whole lot easier to find coon when they are really in the tree.....

Now, having said that, when I'm in a hunt, I DON"T WANT CIRCLE POINTS. If my dog takes up any of the 120 minutes allotted for hunting, I want to see a coon.

The common thought is that circle points count neither for you nor against you...but the way I see them is it is time wasted! I only have 120 minutes to beat every dog entered in my class (registered or NT champion), so I have to make every minute count. If I take 25 minutes to strike, trail, tree, and score a tree, and I don't have plus points at the end of that....those circle points do indeed count "against" me.....

But I have a strange way of looking at a lot of things.

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
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You make a good point Joe. When you got 15 dogs hunting the NtCh hunt like they had at Silver Lake last Friday nite, circle points hurt you about as much as a minus because as Joe said, you aren't getting anything on the scorecard that can win.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
You make a good point Joe. When you got 15 dogs hunting the NtCh hunt like they had at Silver Lake last Friday nite, circle points hurt you about as much as a minus because as Joe said, you aren't getting anything on the scorecard that can win.

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Jake Carey, I've hunted in Ohio right many times in the past 18 years going to B&T Days. Most of the trees up there you can SEE! Many times down here in the swamps and pine plantations you can not even see the tree, much less find the coon.

How often do you tree in a loblolly pine full of vines? How often do you tree in a tree 4 feet across the stump that you can not see the top due to the leaf canopy below it? Many of these coon have been treed many times and most will not look even after you find them. I agree that you can not find the coon if he is not there, but I have a pretty accurate dog and most of the time she will have the coon even if you don't find it. How do I know? I know my dog and yes she sometimes misses, just not to often. I also did not start coon hunting yesterday.

Joe, I also agree that circle points represent wasted time.

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Bill Harper
Washington, NC
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how about a hound i have hunted for 6 years and is a lockdown treedog that will stay treed fr hours if thats how long it takes to get to her.
well i drew out in a case of 3 before we lef he club the judge complained tha one dog was in heat and he got her withdrawn
then we hit the wods me and my hound i was guiding the other was the judge and his dog his strikes first mine second itree mine he trees his tells me yor dog moved she is minused scores his dog we cut loose again my dog trees 15 feet away i strke her ree her his og jumps on same reewe score dog move on.
both dogs stike real close i tre mine again his dg is barking treed he tells me your dog moved finally trees his dog we reach tree oth gogs n he tree he minuses mine fr moving.

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Thats nuts, we might as well sit back and watch the dogs go hunt, have two or (unbiased) three judges and judge it like gymnastics, where you just give a dog/person a score or place for the night according to what dog they think did best (per cast), no strike points or tree points, just a and overall judge of ok, this dog did well tonight, all us judges agree it kicked butt and did better than all the rest it gets first place, this one did well, but second best, this one is third and that one did the worst so its fourth. that way, a bad handler also can't screw up the best dog in the woods, because if it did the best and the handler screwed up the calls it doesn't make sense for the bad dog to win becuase of a handler, everyone would just know that one dog was the best based on common sense judgment of how a good dog should hunt. I don't know, maybe thats nuts, but hey, its an idea. I think that would be fun to try.

i think joe is right about circle points count against ya cause your wasting time. I would like to take that one step further though. i would love to see a rule change where if you had a tree that you were gonna circle, YOU WOULD BE REQUIRED TO SHINE IT FOR TEN MINUTES, or at least run 10 off the clock. this way you wouldn't have guys look at a minus tree for one minute and agree to circle it and cut back into the hound that is actually gonna get the coon treed.

if we let slick treeing dogs stay in the cast , they have a tendency to ruin everyones night. i get a stiff neck looking up at empty trees, and i dont care to walk to a tree that i think is gonna be empty. if a dog has made three slicks already [but not taken any minus as travis proposes] there AINT NO WAY I AM BUSTING THROUGH BRUSH, WADING A RIVER, OR CLIMBING A BLUFF TO SCORE YET ANOTHER DANG CIRCLE TREE!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jake Carey
I figured thats the response I would get from this board. This coming from the guys saying there dogs are 99% accurate, Come on!!!!!!!!!!

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i think the rules are just fine. you don't plus a tree unless you see it . right? well if there is a chance there could be a coon you circle it. i didn't say if you think there is one there or not. circle points is giving the benifit of the doubt to the dogs. and you don't give points minus unless you know for sure there is not a coon . i guess if you don't like walking to circle trees , make sure your not hunting a me too dog . hunt one that runs most the time, trees as a last resort ,and always has the coon off by himself. yes it does get rediculous walking to big tree after big tree without seeing anything and they probly are blank. but if you are hunting a coon dog that doesn't pay attention to the idiot . he will beat the idiot most the time. j.m.o

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