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Complexity of scenting.

Most of us when we began coon hunting had a simple understanding that some dogs could smell better than others. We classified "cold nosed" dogs as those that could work an old bad track. "Hot nosed" dogs could only work fresh new tracks. As we hunt over the years we start to understand that it is more complex than that. Certain dogs trail better in dry conditions, others better in wet. Some "cold nosed " dogs couldn't find the "laid up" coon that the hot nosed dog could. Some dogs could smell an old track but not put any direction on it, or go anywhere with it. And the longer we hunt the more complexity we see in dogs scenting abilities. On any given night Dog A might run the first track easily and wide open, while Dog B struggles. Then on the next track Dog B takes it away while Dog A stands on their head. In a night hunt a known hot nosed "can only tree an easy coon" dog trees a coon that the rest of the cast can not seem to smell at all.

Compliments of UCBerkeley, a whole new chapter has been opened in scenting ability. They have discovered that the brain can discern between difference in smell coming in to the left nostril compared to the right nostril. As in "smelling in stereo". This study was done on humans, but expected to apply equally to canines.
Imagine this scenario. Dog is tracking along. Dog realizes that it has strayed off track, but we now know that it is likely that the dog knows which nostril smelled the track last. If it was the left nostril, the dog knows to veer back to the left to pick up track. Or vice versa. In the past it was assumed that a dog would just swing left and right until it found the track again.

Is it possible that the biggest difference between "good hounds" and "great hounds" is not how strong of a sense of smell they have but rather how well they can discern between left nostril/right nostril smelling? Is this why some dogs can pick up a loss quicker than others? Why some dogs get "bogged down", while others blast out? Why some dogs are better at running with their heads up, making big wide slashes through the woods, while others are better at nose down to the ground tracking? Literally straddling the track faster than another can "drift" it?
Is this why some dogs go through a bad slump? Having one nostril suffering from sinus infection would take away it's ability to "directional" scent.
Read this and comment please:
http://www.saukvalley.com/articles/...22678091898.txt

I should note that this study is from 2006- but have never seen it published or discussed before.

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"They have discovered that the brain can discern ".......
The brain ..........
a dog has ta have brains to be a better tracker/treer etc.
If they ain't got no brains to discern what they smell don't matter if they had 3 nostrils.
Interesting read nontheless!!

very interresting.

It is something to think about.

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i was thinking the same thing Jim. Only place worse on earth for anything to come out of would be the white house.

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if they have a right and left turn signal, wheres the foward and reverse.

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I can see it now. The student in the article calling home to tell mom and dad, "hey i got my picture in the paper for doing research at college.

Then proud mom and dad get a copy of the paper to see their son on his hands and knees being a guinea pig!lol


Ben,

The study is interesting, but the sample sizes are much too small! Any statistical analysis would have to be viewed skeptically. Still interesting.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Larry, I don't think this type of scientific work relies on large sample sizes. This work I think is seen more as a starting point than an end result, creating a new understanding of how scenting works, rather than statistical analysis.

Dan Dogs- this could also lead to a better understanding of "forward and reverse", as in, why are some dogs more prone to back tracking than others

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ben, if i smell a cheeseburger and walk to the right and don't smell it anymore i am naturally going to swing back to the left. but i don't think my right nostril is telling me i'm going in the wrong direction. LOL my nose isn't that sensitive.

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I read this years ago and there are other studies that support the idea that the two nostrils help canines determin direction in much the same way that two eyes are required for us to have depth perception.
Scent is a really fascinating topic and very hard for us to understand because we dont have the ability that our dogs have. I have seen dogs get sprayed by a skunk and still be able to run a coon track, and i have also turned dogs on a red hot coon track that they couldnt smell at all. GO FIGURE.

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Ben,

The scientific method is the basis of all scientific research. A scientist makes an hypothesis such as scenting abilities have a left or right compotent.

A null hypothesis would be there is no left or right compotent to scenting. The statical test you would choose would determine whether or not you accept the null hypothesis to a set confidence limits (usually 95%).

In no uncertain terms is the sample size large enough to accept or not to accept the null hypothesis with much or any confidence.

That is part of my issues with science today. Scientist are much to willing to ignore the scientific method.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I read this years ago and there are other studies that support the idea that the two nostrils help canines determin direction in much the same way that two eyes are required for us to have depth perception.
Scent is a really fascinating topic and very hard for us to understand because we dont have the ability that our dogs have. I have seen dogs get sprayed by a skunk and still be able to run a coon track, and i have also turned dogs on a red hot coon track that they couldnt smell at all. GO FIGURE.

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interesting i might say..looks to me like a way to come up with more excusses ..lol.... i don't care were those coons have been, i want to know were they are.. the one that shows me that the fastest has the best nose in my book.. not sure what nostrel they use .. hopfully both.lol. scientists will study anything...must be rough weather down that way huh ben ? have a good one...

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Jay, we put one up on the outside last night in white out conditions. I been down to two or three nights a week with the weather and snow, but have yet to be skunked since hide season started.Have treed at least one every night out. Tracked and treed down to 12 degrees. Now treed in blinding snow and in deep snow. Hope your hunting has been good too.

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Another thing people dont consider a factor in tracking ability is the size of the nostriles on the dog but as stated above if you dont have a brain behind the nose it doesnt matter how much scent particals you inhale..

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Larry, I don't think you understand this piece of work. It was to merely prove that something could be done. You potentially could do that with a sample size as small as one. Example- most people would say that you can't stay underwater without a breathing apparatus more than a few minutes. But if you observed the person who set the world record of being underwater for 12 minutes then you would have an understanding of something thought to be impossible that now is known to be possible. Before the Wright brothers human flight was thought to be impossible. A sample of those two would prove that human flight is possible. It would of course take a huge sampling to come to the conclusion that something is NOT POSSIBLE, but not necessarily vice versa.

Dan- If two people were trying to get to that hamburger at the same time and one had direction sensitive smelling capabilities and the other didn't who do you think gets there first?

Was thinking about directional hearing lat night- obviously if someone is deaf in one ear they have no directional hearing. In using triangulation to locate something, in this case using yours ears as two corners of the triangle and the dogs voice as the other, obviously the more equal the length of the three sides of the triangle the easier to triangulate. If your ears are about 9 inches apart and a dog is three feet away it would be very easy. But think about when your dog is 400 yards away, the triangle is hardly a triangle at all, 400 yards long on two sides of the triangle and 9 inches wide on the third. And yet without any conscious thought we can get very good direction. So a triangle that has a nearly 1500 to 1 ratio in long side to short side is still capable of getting good direction. Considering that dogs nostrils are nearly an inch apart, what if scenting is just as accurate at a similar ratio? as in at a distance of 1500 inches [100+ feet] from the primary source of the smell, a dog can pick up direction? Maybe one can and another can't, or can't do it as well?
Which dog would you want to own? How valuable would it be understand and be able to access and see this ability in one hound over another? What if that is actually the key to hounds that are great reproducers- the ability to do something better than other hounds that most people don't even understand or comprehend is going on?
Like some have noted, I too really just want to tree a coon. And quickly. And in any weather. But understanding this may be a key to better understanding just how our dogs do what they do.
Better understanding of why some dogs go to where the coon was rather than where it is.

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I've watched dogs snort and sniff, snort and sniff, stop, stick their nose in a track, throw their head up, let out a big bawwl while taking a step backwards, then start the process again for about three steps and take a step backwards. Inevitably the owner would point out how cold nosed dog he had. I think a dog with a good nose satisfies himself with SOME scent, not a track full of it. He keeps getting scent and he keeps on moving. About the time you are trying to let yourself be impressed by old Cold Nose, another dog gets on the track and passes him and keeps getting gone. So which really has the coldest nose and uses it?

ben, maybe thats the difference between a track stradler and a drifter. stradler as a sensitive nose that does not take him far from the trail. a drifter uses his brain to tell him when to swing. i'll take the drifter to win this race..lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
I've watched dogs snort and sniff, snort and sniff, stop, stick their nose in a track, throw their head up, let out a big bawwl while taking a step backwards, then start the process again for about three steps and take a step backwards. Inevitably the owner would point out how cold nosed dog he had. I think a dog with a good nose satisfies himself with SOME scent, not a track full of it. He keeps getting scent and he keeps on moving. About the time you are trying to let yourself be impressed by old Cold Nose, another dog gets on the track and passes him and keeps getting gone. So which really has the coldest nose and uses it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dan Dogs
ben, maybe thats the difference between a track stradler and a drifter. stradler as a sensitive nose that does not take him far from the trail. a drifter uses his brain to tell him when to swing. i'll take the drifter to win this race..lol

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if you think the price of education is high, check out the cost of ignorance!