UKC Forums - The Right and Wrong Choices by Nathan Lattimer

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-- The Right and Wrong Choices by Nathan Lattimer (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=441607)

Posted by Allen / UKC on 08-02-2011 08:36 PM:

The Right and Wrong Choices by Nathan Lattimer

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/...8022011030357PM

Posted by Allen / UKC on 08-02-2011 08:40 PM:

One of the best articles to ever appear in COONHOUND BLOODLINES! Thank you Nathan.

If you haven't read make we encourage you to do so.

Posted by Richard Bull on 08-02-2011 08:54 PM:

AWESOME!!!! Congrats Nathan

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Posted by pawoodrum on 08-03-2011 12:51 AM:

choices

Yep, I agree! A very good article Nathan. But every article you write is good. Keep 'em coming.

Posted by Cynthia on 08-03-2011 03:52 AM:

well, I was able to recall real situations to all of these hypothetical ones. People ask all the time, "what difference does it make who is the BSJ? just go and have fun." well this article hits the nail several times as to why it is VERY important to know who the BSJ is well in advance of the show. For lack of space, I have referred to the section of the article.

Clear black & white rules can be made. Its just a matter of making them.

All of the items shown under "Make a Rule" are from the AKC's "Guidelines for Judges" & the "Rules Applying to Dog Shows" books.

A good rule of thumb is: If you have concerns about whether something is inappropriate, you probably should avoid the situation.

Issue:
The Relationship Between the Judge and the Handler(s)
The Relationship Between the Judge and the Dog(s)

Make a Rule:
No entry shall be made at any show under a judge of any dog which said judge or any member of his immediate household or immediate family has been known to have owned, handled in the ring more than twice, sold, held under lease or boarded within one year prior to the date of the show.
For the purposes of this section, the members of an immediate family are: husband, wife, father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister -in-law.

Issue:
The Relationship Between the Judge and the Dog(s)

Make a Rule:
• Advise potential exhibitors not to enter under you
when their presence or the presence of their dogs
might give the impression of unfair advantage. [P]
For example, if the exhibitor is:
…your employer or an employee.
…a relative.
…a person with whom you co-own dogs.
…a person with whom you travel to dog shows.

Make a Rule:
Avoid Contacts When judging at a cluster, do not
visit the grooming or exercise areas on the days prior
to or the days you are judging.
[P] Do not carry or examine a catalog reflecting the
entry on the day(s) you are judging until you have completed your entire assignment for the show(s) or cluster.
Do not discuss the merits of the dogs you are judging
or may judge, or talk at length with anyone who
may be exhibiting under you.

Issue:
The Judge Selection Process

Impartiality judges decisions should be based solely
on the merits of the dogs being judged. It is essential
that fanciers continue to have full faith in the impartiality
of judges.

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Posted by Big R.D. on 08-03-2011 05:49 AM:

have fun

Heck with all those rules we should get the Goverment involved

Posted by chellesboys on 08-03-2011 09:06 PM:

most of his concerns are not allowed under UKC's judging rules for All-Breed Conformation through the Dog Sports Program.

I have never understood why the rules for coonhound events are so different from the rest of UKC, including the no professional handlers allowed. No Pro Handlers is such a major emphasis in the dog events department...

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Posted by Nathan Lattimer on 08-04-2011 03:34 AM:

Thanks Allen and everyone who posted a compliment! I just hope to help the sport out anyway possible.

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Posted by Southern Coondog on 08-06-2011 07:48 AM:

AMEN TO THAT ARTICAL

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 08-06-2011 03:57 PM:

Nice

article, I have judged shows since 1983 for UKC... This brings home alot of nice points, thanks for writing it. Thankfully my integrity has never been called into question, but I've seen the adverse take place, sometimes without merit.. sometimes I pondered a bit....

My attitude and thought on it has been, what dog I'm looking at best meets it's breed standard to be the most superior athlete to pursue game in the wild. Straight legs, good well padded feet proper lung capacity, a strong muscular back, well formed hips, etc.... If they are put together right they will hunt well with endurance.....

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Posted by Mike Espinosa on 08-06-2011 06:59 PM:

Great article, Nathan your a first class person and a hudge asset to our sport. Thank You.

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Posted by jason2579 on 08-06-2011 08:06 PM:

Great article. Unfortunely These things do go on. A little bit to chew on here have you ever shown up to a club and ask who was judging and then walk out side and look around at who is showin and know who was going to win before the show even started. I'm not talking about a guy that just has a real nice hound but a buddy buddy system exist between them or like Nathan pointed out a interest the judge may have in a hound. Way to often this has happened in my neck of the woods and it has reflected in the number of hounds that show up here for shows anymore. There was a time when 30 dogs would show up for a weekend show and now were lucky to draw 3 to 5 dogs just cause of the actions of a few people. The bad thing is that these people would judge at other clubs and same things would go on. Now i'm not a show dog person but making them a show champion is a bonus to me but i don't even attempt it when i know who is judging heck i would enter my dog if my cousin judge cause at least then i knew i get honest chance it seemed to me he judged the dog not the handler and even them big named show guys knew that they weren't going to win on name alone. Way to often i watched big named show guys bring a so so dog that he was hired to finsh out and win on name alone. So if you ask me yes knowing the judge the dogs your showing against and the handler is very important cause it could just save you the time and money invested in your beloved hound. I often at times also wondered why UKC didn't imply the rules set for beagles in the coonhound breed. This is if their still in affect. That if you show your hound it must also be hunted in the hunt. Truthfully that is why these hounds were started not as a show piece but a hound of ability to track and tree coon. This is all my opinion of course so please don't jump all over me about my point of view freedom of speech is rapidly become a thing of the past here lol. Just a side note i have seen people pull in ask who was judging and then turn around and leave. Just another personal opinion i believe all clubs should have at least 2 judges for the show or a panel. I know this is hard cuase even getting one judge is hard nowadays.

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Posted by Roy Ingram on 08-07-2011 05:07 PM:

Well people will not know who is going to Judge the Okla State Show eather day until that day. I have already got them.

Posted by Jon Millwood on 08-07-2011 06:40 PM:

I think this was a great article..I have always wondered why UKC officials do not judge the majors shows?

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Posted by Cynthia on 08-07-2011 08:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Roy Ingram
Well people will not know who is going to Judge the Okla State Show eather day until that day. I have already got them.

and why not? some of the items in this article relates directly to knowing who the judge is! is my dog out of the judge's stock? have I already shown under this judge? so if I were coming, I'd have to drive X miles @ $3.50+ per gallon only to find out that I cant show???? that's just wrong, especially in this economy where ppl are having to pick and choose where they go. you (and other events) should be a little more considerate.

Posted by calblu on 08-07-2011 10:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jason2579
Great article. Unfortunely These things do go on. A little bit to chew on here have you ever shown up to a club and ask who was judging and then walk out side and look around at who is showin and know who was going to win before the show even started.

Sure is true! Unfortunately, since moving to IA this is the first time Tiny and I have ever encountered this (tho' we know *from reading the board* that it does happen in various places). In all the years of showing in the western states, I can't remember a single time I showed a dog and didn't feel like I'd get a fair look from the judge.
Tiny and I are both judges, I know for a fact we never knew in advance what dogs we would pick. That's part of the enjoyment of judging --- rewarding what we feel is the best dog on that day!!
It's really disheartening to go to a show here in IA and be told the winning dogs were picked before they were ever judged. I'd just rather not even know that. Shame on those kinds of judges, but I know it's not limited to just one state....or even just one registry/kennel club.

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Posted by Roy Ingram on 08-08-2011 02:45 AM:

If a person knows who the Judge is going to be he or she can do a lot of things thats is not right. I know have been to Shows all over the USA. An people cant tell me that it is not done cause i have seen it. Enough said.

Posted by Ray Walburn on 08-08-2011 03:12 AM:

I like the article its great....

jason 2579 I also agree .. IT happens

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Posted by jackbob42 on 08-08-2011 03:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Roy Ingram
Well people will not know who is going to Judge the Okla State Show eather day until that day. I have already got them.

If you were confident in the people you picked to judge , there would be no reason to keep them a secret.
If they are fair and honest , people will know it.
In my opinion , keeping secrets is one of them "wrong" choices.

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Posted by Herb on 08-08-2011 01:31 PM:

right and wrong

Nathan for President

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Posted by SCBluetickGal on 08-08-2011 03:16 PM:

I thought this was a great article. Definitely highlighted situations we've all seen happen at one time or another.

As for not disclosing judges ahead of time, I generally think it's a bad idea. I understand the reasoning some folks have for doing so, but as Cynthia said, I don't want to make a wasted trip (especially a long one) only to find out that I can't show under the judge for one reason or another.

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