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-- is their a difference between big game breeding and cooners? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=285125)

is their a difference between big game breeding and cooners?

im just curious
i know that titles mean nothing to you guys but do the pups act any different? less independant,gritter,maybe even smarter? just curious.thanks

__________________
PKC CH GRNITECH 'PR' GREATHOUSE'S SUNDOWN SADIE

GRNITECH HAMMRICK'S COON CRAVIN SIS

This is my experience with my dogs. My old dog is outa a cat dog and a coon dog and several of his brothers are bear dogs. He's got more grit, toughness, and nose than my coon bred dogs and he's just as fast on track on a good track. He can run a bad track the coon bred dog struggles with. He's not as hard a tree dog, but dead accurate. Wouldn't make a comp dog, but he is a hide dog.

it takes a little "extra" for a big game dog. I firmly believe you can make a coon dog out of bear "stock" but the coondogs that can make a bear dog are few and far between.That being said,alot of dogs will run a bear,cat ect but that doesnt make them a bear,cat ect dog by any means,in my opinion.

quote:

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Originally posted by bearhunter
it takes a little "extra" for a big game dog. I firmly believe you can make a coon dog out of bear "stock" but the coondogs that can make a bear dog are few and far between.That being said,alot of dogs will run a bear,cat ect but that doesnt make them a bear,cat ect dog by any means,in my opinion.

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__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

quote:

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Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
Sam's right on !!

Plus

More Nose !! More Nose !! Tracking Style and Ability

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This Really Depends

There are many ways to answer that question.
First you have to question what a hound has to be in the eyes of each hunter to be called a top hound. Like everything else there are many opinions and almost everyone thinks theirs is the only correct one.
I think the bottom line is that every real hounds men want the coldest nosed fast hound that he can get, I think that every real hounds men wants a accurate tree dog. Heart, Grit, Ect,Ect
Really we all want the same things.

__________________
Jess
Light Foot English

"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

My thoughts exactly, the trail, tree and locate hound is bred into most hounds and then handler takes that pup and helps it evolve into what it becomes by the environment and game he exposes it to........

ike

I believe

The tracking, treeing and hunting style are determined by the pedigree, I also believe that all a hunter can do is give a pup enough exposure to game to bring them out. In my opinion more good pups a screwed up by hunters trying to make a young hound fit a certain style that this hunter believes in, than any other way.
The best hounds men I ever knew told me years ago a statement that helped me a great deal, This may sound very simple however if you spend some time thinking about it you may find a great deal of wisdom in this statement, I know that I have.

" No hound has a patent on how to tree game"

One hounds dominant skill might be it's Brains the next might use it's Nose the next might be a Superior Athlete. While every good hound has all of these skills they often have them in varying degrees. Each hound may use their Dominant skill more or differently than the next hound.
If the hunter is determined that every good hound uses it's Nose <example> as it's Dominant skill to tree game and the hound that he is trying to train is bred to use Brains as it's Dominated skill the hunter will always be disappointed in the hound.
That doesn't mean that the hound lacks the ability to successfully and efficiently tree game. The key is let a hound develop it's own dominate skill. Only then can you evaluate that hounds true value.
This is what I was referring to when I said that
"First you have to question what a hound has to be in the eyes of each hunter to be called a top hound. "

__________________
Jess
Light Foot English

"They are often imitated but never duplicated"

Re: I believe

quote:

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Originally posted by hellcat
The tracking, treeing and hunting style are determined by the pedigree, I also believe that all a hunter can do is give a pup enough exposure to game to bring them out. In my opinion more good pups a screwed up by hunters trying to make a young hound fit a certain style that this hunter believes in, than any other way.
The best hounds men I ever knew told me years ago a statement that helped me a great deal, This may sound very simple however if you spend some time thinking about it you may find a great deal of wisdom in this statement, I know that I have.

" No hound has a patent on how to tree game"

One hounds dominant skill might be it's Brains the next might use it's Nose the next might be a Superior Athlete. While every good hound has all of these skills they often have them in varying degrees. Each hound may use their Dominant skill more or differently than the next hound.
If the hunter is determined that every good hound uses it's Nose <example> as it's Dominant skill to tree game and the hound that he is trying to train is bred to use Brains as it's Dominated skill the hunter will always be disappointed in the hound.
That doesn't mean that the hound lacks the ability to successfully and efficiently tree game. The key is let a hound develop it's own dominate skill. Only then can you evaluate that hounds true value.
This is what I was referring to when I said that
"First you have to question what a hound has to be in the eyes of each hunter to be called a top hound. "

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__________________
Adam Evans
Brushy Ridge English Hounds
Light Foot English

304-257-6079

http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/teambrushyridge/
brushyridgehounds.webs.com

Re: I believe

quote:

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Originally posted by hellcat

"First you have to question what a hound has to be in the eyes of each hunter to be called a top hound. " [/B]

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ike, that sounds like a lot of fun and some fine hounds! id love to see a lion in a tree!

__________________
PKC CH GRNITECH 'PR' GREATHOUSE'S SUNDOWN SADIE

GRNITECH HAMMRICK'S COON CRAVIN SIS

Re: Re: I believe

quote:

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Originally posted by RunninBear(Ike)
To be a "top hound" in my eyes means that dog needs to be solid from the rig platform to the tree on lions and bears. It has to be a solid cold track dog, one with a lot of heart, one that will push an old track all day and night if I don't call it off, and one that will stay treed until it doesn't have the energy to continue.

Early last spring, I started a lion off a tom scratch early in the morning while casting six of my hounds. I thought they had a nice tom lion, but decided after they'd gone out they probably had a female that had come through his old scratch line.

The ground was open with some old crusty snow as the elevation rose, and a place with NO road access. My six hounds traveled at least eight miles one direction, then back the other as they climbed out and dark came. The next morning I found them on my receiver and thought they were trailing out....no such luck.

About 9:00 AM the second day, the treeing switches started clicking one right after the other, and by 10:30 that morning I started my climb into those hounds. They had a young female lion in the tree, and one dog had dug a bed right under the tree when I arrived. It had been twenty-five hours after they left that they first fell on the wood, and was twenty-nine hours after their start when I arrived under that tree. And that's what I call top hounds...........

ike

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__________________
Mason Workman
702-686-5035

quote:

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Originally posted by bobbyG
ike, that sounds like a lot of fun and some fine hounds! id love to see a lion in a tree!

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And I know what you mean Mason, cause old Ike can't hit his 9 iron very straight either.........if he could, then he'd be playing golf rather than running a pack of lion and bear hounds.

Ike
___________________________________________
http://www.ingramwildlife.com/callinghounds.wmv
http://www.ingramwildlife.com/bearhole.wmv
http://www.ingramwildlife.com/lionjump.wmv
http://www.ingramwildlife.com/hdcdvd.wmv
http://www.ingramwildlife.com/picture.htm
Ingram Bred hounds, hounds that will handle and catch

quote:

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Originally posted by bearhunter
it takes a little "extra" for a big game dog. I firmly believe you can make a coon dog out of bear "stock" but the coondogs that can make a bear dog are few and far between.That being said,alot of dogs will run a bear,cat ect but that doesnt make them a bear,cat ect dog by any means,in my opinion.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JRW1
I don't know. It seems to me that it would be easier to track a big old stinky bear, that it would to tree a smart coon. Especially with a pack of hounds backing you up!
When you say extra, what is it that they need? Aggression? Because I know of a lot of coon hounds that have that one!LOL

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coon dogs

Eggression is a big reason.I've had young dog's that would try to eat through the gage with a caged coon and when they got bit they would just dive right in for more,but the first bear they caught up to they would turn around and run back to the truck with there tail between there leg's.Just because there aggresive with a coon doesn't mean they are going to be with a bear.

__________________
Its a **** poor woman who cant support a man and a pack of hounds.

http://www.sprucemountainhunting.com

I guess it depends on the coon dogs you hunt.
I've been using the same dogs on bear and coon both since I started bear hunting. That'll be 37 years come this fall.
People talk about being " outrun " by smaller bears. Two years ago , we treed 3 bears that weighed 100-150 lbs in one week.
A few years earlier , they bayed up a boar that dressed out at 362 lbs.
Thing is , I don't call most dogs a " coondog ". There are very few of them.
I don't require a dog to run bear before I call them a " coondog " , but most all of what we've had that I would call a " coondog " , did a fine job on bear also.
But , I'm also not afraid to admit that we don't have a " coondog " in the bunch right now. AND , we don't have a bear dog in the bunch either. We got dogs that'll run a bear , but they're not bear dogs.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
I guess it depends on the coon dogs you hunt.
I've been using the same dogs on bear and coon both since I started bear hunting. That'll be 37 years come this fall.
People talk about being " outrun " by smaller bears. Two years ago , we treed 3 bears that weighed 100-150 lbs in one week.
A few years earlier , they bayed up a boar that dressed out at 362 lbs.
Thing is , I don't call most dogs a " coondog ". There are very few of them.
I don't require a dog to run bear before I call them a " coondog " , but most all of what we've had that I would call a " coondog " , did a fine job on bear also.
But , I'm also not afraid to admit that we don't have a " coondog " in the bunch right now. AND , we don't have a bear dog in the bunch either. We got dogs that'll run a bear , but they're not bear dogs.

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__________________
Shawn Wemple
Lost Creek Kennel
517-575-9662

Whitey Dogs ROCK!!!
I use and recommend Kelley's K-Lights.

quote:

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Originally posted by walkercash
I heard this weekend that it wasnt good to hunt them on both, or some mumbo jumbo like that lol

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

You can have the best cold trailer, the hardest tree dog, the fastest on the track, The Grittiest dog alive. and still not have a 100% BEAR DOG. You can tree coons in style and bobcats. But without 100% Heart You will never have the true bear dog. The dog that comes across the road after fighting all day or running all day and FALLS OVER IN THE Road after giving 110%. The dog that does this is in my opion a bear dog in any breed. Few men ever really have this type and some in a lifetime. I hope everybody own at least one in their lifetime.