UKC Forums - Treeing without striking...UKC!!!

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Posted by Randy Tallon on 05-22-2012 04:41 PM:

Treeing without striking...UKC!!!

I know what I said.....same thing a MOH said.....but a ton of people going in different directions. This does not fall under the NOT striking rule on the back of the card. UKC....I know it's in the rules book, but, ya might want to put it on the card!!!

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Posted by Lone Pine JB on 05-22-2012 04:44 PM:

I talked to Heath today too.

after 1st 3 barks, minused for not striking, after next 3 barks, (bark #6), dog is scratched for not being struck

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Posted by Randy Tallon on 05-22-2012 04:46 PM:

Wrong situation, John. Dog was treed by handler and never struck in.

Posted by Lone Pine JB on 05-22-2012 05:00 PM:

December Advisor
Allen Gingerich

Scratch or Minus
Q: In a four dog cast, dogs A, B and C are declared struck. Dog D falls treed and is declared treed without being declared struck by the handler. Is the dog scratched for not being declared struck first?

A: Nowhere on the back of the scorecard or in the rulebook will one find a rule that allows you to scratch a dog that has been declared treed without being declared struck first. Before the last rule change, in most situations, dogs declared treed before being declared struck would end up in the back of the truck almost as quick as the handler could call the dog treed! Not because they were declared treed before being struck but rather, in most situations, because the dog had opened more than three times after the first minute of being released without a strike call from the handler.

A new rule in affect this year 4(j){on first offense failure to strike a dog before the third bark will result in those points being awarded and minused.}would apply in the scenario described above assuming this was the first time in the hunt that dog D had not been declared struck in time.

Dog D would be awarded 25 strike points and they would be minused. (assuming it was first offense) The handler would then need to strike the dog immediately, which may be followed by a tree call. If the handler of dog D was to once again tree the dog before declaring him struck later on in the hunt, it would result in the dog being scratched from the hunt unless he somehow declared the dog struck before the third bark. A dog must always be declared struck first before it may be called treed. If you were to ask any seasoned competition hunters if this had ever happened to them, more than likely the answer would be; yep, once!

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Posted by Lone Pine JB on 05-22-2012 05:13 PM:

6(e) On second offense if handler fails to strike his dog on
or before the third bark, after the first minute, each time
dog(s) is released. (This rule is to be rigidly enforced.)

So a 2nd offense applies to a different track/tree than the one earlier in the night when the handler treed with striking?

I think I got it now....

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Posted by StrawberryMt on 05-22-2012 08:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lone Pine JB
6(e)

So a 2nd offense applies to a different track/tree than the one earlier in the night when the handler treed with striking?

I think I got it now....

Not necessarly. Next three barks as described in the advisor post above.

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Posted by Lone Pine JB on 05-23-2012 12:35 AM:

Allen could you please clarify?

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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

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Posted by Randy Tallon on 05-23-2012 12:51 AM:

Let me throw this into the mix. Dog hadn't struck or treed. Opened right in front of us after the debate started.

Posted by on 05-23-2012 12:54 AM:

Its fairly simple. If you tree your dog before you strike it then on the third bark the judge minuses the dog. After it has been minused if it is not struck in by the next three barks then it is scratched.

Posted by Lone Pine JB on 05-23-2012 12:54 AM:

so the handler treed a dog that hadn't even barked?

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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Lone Pine North

Posted by l.lyle on 05-23-2012 01:08 AM:

Seriously, what ever happened to "Strike and Tree Sally"? in a two second breath.

Posted by GA DAWG on 05-23-2012 01:41 AM:

I could see somebody going to the truck on this. Specially if its a 130 bpm tree dog. How longs it take it to bark 6 times lol. Next when the dog opened right in front of you. You know he's not treed. Minus him. Let him question it. Who cares. Just gotta do as good as you can do.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 05-23-2012 01:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by l.lyle
Seriously, what ever happened to "Strike and Tree Sally"? in a two second breath.

Most of em bark to much to do that nowdays. They been barking ever since you turned em out

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Posted by JiM on 05-23-2012 01:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
I could see somebody going to the truck on this. Specially if its a 130 bpm tree dog. How longs it take it to bark 6 times lol. Next when the dog opened right in front of you. You know he's not treed. Minus him. Let him question it. Who cares. Just gotta do as good as you can do.

It doesn't exactly work that way. First you gotta minus the dog after the first offense, then they have to commit the 2nd offense. You can't just count 6 barks and say "you're gone".

If you minus the dog the first time, explaining to the handler that his dog is minused for failure to be struck on or before the third bark and he still doesn't get his dog struck before the next 3 barks, well then yeah, his hunt is over.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 05-23-2012 02:05 AM:

But if the dogs actually treed. I explain it fast. He prolly still can't get it figured out in 3 more barks. LoL .. .

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Posted by Randy Tallon on 05-23-2012 02:47 AM:

Bottom line...he pitched the dog hoping to get a piece of the tree. How do you score that?

Posted by on 05-23-2012 02:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Randy Tallon
Bottom line...he pitched the dog hoping to get a piece of the tree. How do you score that?

I'm not sure you can do anything to him. The only way to minus him would be if he treed and his dog had barked three times without being struck. Or if he pitched while striking his dog. I dont know for sure how ukc would rule on it.

Posted by StrawberryMt on 05-23-2012 02:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Randy Tallon
Bottom line...he pitched the dog hoping to get a piece of the tree. How do you score that?

Allan has gone over this before.He would not receive minused tree points. The judge would inform him he cannot accept his tree call because the dog was not struck. If the dog has barked more than three times he would be awarded next available strike points and minus them and warn him.

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Posted by headless01 on 05-23-2012 08:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Most of em bark to much to do that nowdays. They been barking ever since you turned em out

ain't that the truth, and they pentalize dog that trees coon first without opening on ground. yet the babbler is rewarded with strike points, just can't figure that out. i love track dogs and if a dog can beat my dogs without opening on ground, i want to shake the owners hand.

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