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pup training again

can anyone tell me the best way to start a 6 mos. old. already did the drag and the cage coon, does great. will tree with cage in the tree no problem. turn coon loose and will still trail and tree. i have been running him at night by myself . everything i have read on the search engine says time in the woods. no garmin, no beep beep. no big light. just me and him.so far he has been checking back with me every so often. but no treein yet.
kelley

or if anyone minds takin me and my pup out i would appreciate it. warren crawford or erie county, pa.

I may be in the minority here I don't know but I am going to give you my .02. Kelly, you are like so many people that start coonhunting my own girlfriend included. You want to start, you get a pup, work hard to start the pup, the pup doesn't do what you think it should, and you take personal ownership of what the dog is doing. I think if you take an honest poll of everyone on here the VAST majority of us have run into WAY more failures than successes when starting dogs. I am sure there are going to be people on here that claim that with enough time, and bisquits, and coon shot out ect ect ect you can make any dog into a coon treeing hound. I just just personaly don't agree. I have not started a million dogs, in fact I have raised and attempted to start 6-7 in the past 5 or so years. Of those dogs 3 of them have actually treed coon and one of them I would consider a decent dog. Each of them had almost exactly the same situation to succeed in but less than half were able to do their part.

The bottom line to me is that when you are starting a pup the #1 thing that dog has to do to keep me hunting it enough for it to do anything is GET TREED. The tree can be slick, the tree can have a coon in, the tree can have a possum in, the tree can have a squirrel in to me, that is irrevelent and can be fixed, but the dog has to stop, look up, and stay long enough for me the get there. Chasing a running dog to me is something I USED to do and I won't do it anymore. If getting treed doesn't happen for the dog at a young age and start to happen on a regular basis I will lose interest in a dog. I don't become invested in a dog until it has given me reason to do so.

Do not take the success or failure or your dog on a personal level or believe you are doing something wrong. You may or may not be doing so. The fact is there are lots of things a trainer can do to mess a dog up, but not a lot you can do to make it do what it years of breeding need to put in. Coondogs run on instict and they have to have the god given genes to do all it takes to be even a decent dog. As I always tell my girl, it is much easier, cheaper, and less frustrating to find a dog that does what you want because that is what it does than to find a dog you "like" and attempt to make it do what it is not capable of doing.

All that being said, what was I doing last night???? Following around her cull as it ran around right past coon in trees while she stood there begging him to tree....... The best thing I could do for her is get rid of that dog....but she invested before he earned it. Darn girls...

__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

Ron,

He said the pup will tree a turned loose coon.

I think you need to pick your hunting spots carefully so that you run him across good hot tracks.

Now, if I read your post wrong and the dog isn't treeing yet, put it up wait 30 days and take it with a good pup trainer. If the pup don't tree again, put it up for another 30 days and so on. As soon as the pup trees, then start hunting it by itself in hunting spots that are good for hot fresh tracks. You can even use buckets, but becareful to not over do them. Also, you can easily over do cage coons and let lose coons.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

It doesn't matter to me if a dog runs and trees 1 turn out coon or 100. Eventually I have to be able to turn it loose and it has to get treed without me supplying the track. Once they can tree a turn out coon, I will hunt them like Larry said in good spots on good nights. Either they start or I get sick of it. I think 50X in the woods under the above conditions for an hour at a time is my limit. Other people have much more patience and will keep going and going and going with a dog that isn't doing it. That is totally fine but to me, I would rather just shell out another couple hundred, get another pup, and try again. I don't invest in the dog as an individual till it gives me reason to. Doing so causes you not to be objective and I am a person that likes the fact, not what I think is happening.

Good luck Kelley, it will either happen or it won't. Its why coondog pups cost $200 and coondogs cost $5000

__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

I have to agree with Ron.

I have yet to figure out why, but most people just are not good at starting dogs they seemingly do everything right but it just never turns out for them.

If a pup will tree a turned out coon, there is no reason it cant tree a wild one in your honey hole.

its a 6 month old PUPPY. don't expect it to do everything you want it too when you want it too. each dog matures differently. i've had dogs that tree coon at 7 months and i've had dogs not tree coon til over a year. the dog that started late in my kennel is a coon treeing monster! don't give up on them just cause they don't run and tree at 6 months. just hunt him more and more, if its in him it will come. JMO!!

__________________
Alex Rain
Tree Slammin Redbones

GRWCH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Auringer's Tree Slammin Brodie HTX
-Qualified for 2013 world hunt

NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' Tree Slammin MN Tuff
Pass towards HTX
WCH CH'PR' Tree Slammin Gracie

that is why i am goin to try and try again. new spots, new smells, sheep, cow , deer runnin on your way in. he is in the house and than kicked out at night. i am sure, he will tree. givin the time and the patience. we will do it. he has the ability and he is young. no time to give up. i wont.
thank you
kelley
'pr' branchville mtn banjo man
english

pup training

if u ask me u need to hunt the pup with a old dog and when it starts to do it then hunt it alone. at 6 m u guy think it should do it now. i dont turn out coons in a carge i just hunt them. he is still a pup work with him a walk behinde him alnite if that want it takes but that just me.

thats what i was thinkin, either natural ability or not..................

He is still very young and I believe by what your saying He's Hunting and trusting you to be their .. Checking in is Great for pleasure hunter !!

The next step is that one really easy coon that he finds on his own .. !! Caged Coon is not the same !!

They sell a coon trap called a "Coon Egg" Dogs can't get cought in it nor anything else but a coon .. Search for them on the Internet, their alittle price'ie but they work very good !! Tie about 10' of 1/8" cable to the egg and the other end to a tree along the Creek your hunting ..

Coons will still climb when cought in a coon egg but will be 10' up in the tree .

Just let the Your Boy hunt as usual and let him find the trapped coon ..

Only once usualy works and can Really help Him ..

Coon can be released prit much unharmed, sore Foot for a few days ..

F&T has them http://www.fntpost.com/Products/Dog...+Traps/Egg+Trap

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

pup training

quote:

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Originally posted by branchvillekell
thats what i was thinkin, either natural ability or not..................

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its a long way to the tree and if it cant track to the tree i dont
know how it would ever tree nobody on here can make it
start before he is ready take it to the woods and enjoy it.

You know somewhere along the line of life I saw or read that a women doesn't really want a solution to the issue or problem at hand, she just wants you to listen to her talk about it. Then you just nod your head and let her do what she was going to do anyway cause that was always her intention from the get go.

I need to learn to listen to the advice from the experts....

__________________
The fun is over once you pull the trigger

Ron Ashbaugh
CROOKED FOOT KENNELS

My opinion on your starting and training your puppy. First of all sounds to me like you have done a whole lot with him if he is :::6::: months old period. Nothing wrong with pranking one at that age lightly to kinda get him interested and to see his reaction to a cage coon or laying a track to give him something to work a little BUT, remember he is extremely young and is a baby still. Now, you stated a had ran the track and treed on a release coon which is great for his age but, I think the last cage coon you showed him or released for him should have been his last period... Too much of this and you stand a GREAT chance to ruin him forever. In my experience with puppies they all mature much differently and they ALL can be easily ruined by cage coon and released coon. All I ever use a caged coon, released coon for is to start a fire in my pup to get him interested in game period. Once one gets fired up and will bark upon seeing, smelling a coon and then actually trails and trees a released one that's ALL you can accomplish without risking totally ruining him. Now, with that being said if I were you I would probally take him along at night with an older hound that isn't one that will change zipcodes before putting his nose down so that the pup can stay up with him and see how he acts. You may have luck and he may simply just join right in there and run and tree if so great. If not as in most cases you need to valuate his actions and observe his real ability to keep up with the older dog without dog tracking or barking behind him through the woods to his actual ability to be able to go hunting without any of this. If he does any of this he's NOT ready to hunt.. If he seems to go out and check in often that's fine and sounds as if he may be ready to LIGHTLY hunt. Remember he is a baby and hunt,hunt,hunt, will destroy him period.... Even if he runs,trees, and hunts hard without any problems you cannot hunt him like a mature seasoned dog or you will destroy him quick... If he does do it all I would only drop him for a tree and back home period. Let him sit in kennel a couple nights then repeat it again and continue this gradually going for a couple trees onto a couple nights in a rowe but SLOWLY GRADUATE or you again will be risking ruining him. Remember he's a baby and you wouldn't send a baby to work full time would you? Hope this helps you..

__________________
Wade Hall Jr/Tri-State English Kennel
Former home of: 1995 AKC Overall World Champion Smith's Ohio Cindy 2005 Performance Program Highest English Money Winner of over $11,000 GrChGrNtCh Neuse River Big Money 2 Time English World Ch GrNtCh Wolfe Creek Diesel 2 Time W.V. PKC StateCh GRNtCh Wolfe's Big Man GrChGrNtCh Power Packin Pete GrChGrtCh Ringtail Ready GrNtCh Big Time Joe ChGrNtCh Twin Oaks Big Red Ben High Scoring English Thursday Night at UKC English Days NtCh Johnson's Jeffro High Scoring PKC Eng Female Sen Super Stakes Winning $2,000, 6th Place UKC Eng Days Reg Thursday, NtCh Johnson's Cry Baby 3rd Ohio State Championship Ch Johnson's Big Red Caboose 3rd Ky StateCh NtCh Locktite Tree Spike NtCh Ogden's Penny NtCh Luttrell's Kojak Woodstock Jawbone Woodstock White Grizzly Woodstock Cannon NtCh Sutton's Ringing Bell NtCh East Tennesee's Rolling Stone Ky State Ch High Scoring Female + High Scoring Ky Houndsmen Assoc Winner Hall's Jill PKC Ch UKC NtCh Hall's Rollen Pearl PKC SilverCh Winner of over $13,000 UKC Winter Classic Winner Texas Lonestar Top 4 (3) Yrs back to back GrChGrNtCh Jone's Bros Lumberjack GrNtCh Hall's Champ NtCh Smith's Jill GrChGrNtCh Big Red Turbo Train ***Pups/Young Dogs*** Wade Hall ***

i just referred to the book, Walk With Wick. In it he writes, "I've learned that it's much better to let a young dog get what might be a few months too old before it's started, than it to take the chance of starting it a few months too early." And, " Starting pups and working them hard before they're mentally mature is undoubtedly the number one reason top hounds are so hard to find, and that so many outstanding young prospects never live up to their owner's hopes." So, be patient. I've got a 6 month old plott pup. She did well the first night out. Now, like you, i've got to be patient and give her time to grow up.

__________________
happiness is: being saved by the grace of GOD! i'm happy and hope you are too!

quote:

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Originally posted by croatankid
i just referred to the book, Walk With Wick. In it he writes, "I've learned that it's much better to let a young dog get what might be a few months too old before it's started, than it to take the chance of starting it a few months too early." And, " Starting pups and working them hard before they're mentally mature is undoubtedly the number one reason top hounds are so hard to find, and that so many outstanding young prospects never live up to their owner's hopes." So, be patient. I've got a 6 month old plott pup. She did well the first night out. Now, like you, i've got to be patient and give her time to grow up.

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__________________
Wade Hall Jr/Tri-State English Kennel
Former home of: 1995 AKC Overall World Champion Smith's Ohio Cindy 2005 Performance Program Highest English Money Winner of over $11,000 GrChGrNtCh Neuse River Big Money 2 Time English World Ch GrNtCh Wolfe Creek Diesel 2 Time W.V. PKC StateCh GRNtCh Wolfe's Big Man GrChGrNtCh Power Packin Pete GrChGrtCh Ringtail Ready GrNtCh Big Time Joe ChGrNtCh Twin Oaks Big Red Ben High Scoring English Thursday Night at UKC English Days NtCh Johnson's Jeffro High Scoring PKC Eng Female Sen Super Stakes Winning $2,000, 6th Place UKC Eng Days Reg Thursday, NtCh Johnson's Cry Baby 3rd Ohio State Championship Ch Johnson's Big Red Caboose 3rd Ky StateCh NtCh Locktite Tree Spike NtCh Ogden's Penny NtCh Luttrell's Kojak Woodstock Jawbone Woodstock White Grizzly Woodstock Cannon NtCh Sutton's Ringing Bell NtCh East Tennesee's Rolling Stone Ky State Ch High Scoring Female + High Scoring Ky Houndsmen Assoc Winner Hall's Jill PKC Ch UKC NtCh Hall's Rollen Pearl PKC SilverCh Winner of over $13,000 UKC Winter Classic Winner Texas Lonestar Top 4 (3) Yrs back to back GrChGrNtCh Jone's Bros Lumberjack GrNtCh Hall's Champ NtCh Smith's Jill GrChGrNtCh Big Red Turbo Train ***Pups/Young Dogs*** Wade Hall ***

i had a walker that wouldn't even look at a caged coon he was so afraid of it, not til he was about a year and a half he started to go after them. he would always go out and trail but didn't want to tree. we just hunted him and hunted him with older dogs and he still wasn't getting it. i gave him to my little cousin cause he wanted him so bad and told him he will need work. i had that dog actually SLAM a tree for me once and that was a week before i gave him away. I got to go hunting with him last night and i will tell you, he put on a show! he showed up our old dogs like he's been doing it forever. he has never had a coon shot out to him or anything, so they shot it out and he missed it at first but once he found it, IT WAS ON! this dog is over 2yrs old now and is just coming along VERY nicely and he's making his new owners extremely happy and thats all i can ask for! just give him time, they are all different! good luck!

__________________
Alex Rain
Tree Slammin Redbones

GRWCH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Auringer's Tree Slammin Brodie HTX
-Qualified for 2013 world hunt

NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' Tree Slammin MN Tuff
Pass towards HTX
WCH CH'PR' Tree Slammin Gracie

i appreciate all the responses. i am learning very quickly to slow down with him. i just want to coon hunt, oh well, i can wait. he will be worth it.
kelley
'pr'branchville mtn banjo man