UKC Forums - Todd K. Rule ?

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-- Todd K. Rule ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=33649)

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 11-01-2004 11:47 PM:

Todd Kellam... Rule ?

On a four dog cast. Dog fight breaks out. Dog A leaves and trees again. Dog B is SCRATCHED for aggressive acts of kindness. Dog C is running around tree and other trees trying to get away from dog B. Dog D is TREEING with feet on tree. Handler of dog A trees his dog. Judge tells Handler A to go leash his dog, as he is leaving Judge ask if he wanted them to wait on him to get back before shining tree. He(A) said NO. Once handler A handles his dog 150 yards away Judge starts shining time on tree. Only three people at tree. Judge(handler D) finds coon, handler C also sees coon, handler B(the handler that is scratched for aggressiveness) says he don't see a coon. Handler A never came back to tree. Two of the three at the tree see the coon, but only two of the four in the cast see the coon. IS THE TREE PLUSSED OR NOT?

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by Jayson Lloyd on 11-01-2004 11:57 PM:

I think the tree should have been plussed.

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Posted by JOHNNY CHAPMAN on 11-02-2004 12:10 AM:

when dog was scratched this made it a 3 dog cast, u still have a majarity with 3, u should never use a scratched handler as some could be mad with other or all cast members and vote wrong just to get back at someone. i would say the cast is now a 3 dog cast requiring 2 to score a tree. thats my story and im stickin to it

Posted by Darrell on 11-02-2004 12:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JOHNNY CHAPMAN
when dog was scratched this made it a 3 dog cast, u still have a majarity with 3, u should never use a scratched handler as some could be mad with other or all cast members and vote wrong just to get back at someone. i would say the cast is now a 3 dog cast requiring 2 to score a tree. thats my story and im stickin to it

A scratched cast member does not relenquish his right to vote unless he signs the card and leaves the cast...

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 11-02-2004 10:54 PM:

Mr. Johnny,
Who's gonna be the MOH fri. at Patrick? I guess I'll be there hunting win number five again.(Unless Billy doesn't get off work in time then I'll be hunting Reg.)

Your buddy Jerry(not Lee!) is crying because he got scratched. His dog was on two trees and we had two fights. We made two more after he got scratched without a fight. The last tree all three dogs treed for over 30 minutes.

See ya in Patrick if you gonna be there, Kenneth

Posted by Rip on 11-02-2004 11:04 PM:

Kenneth, as I explained earlier the rule does not say majority of the cast members at the tree, it says majority of the cast.

That means in order to ever plus a tree in a four dog cast you have to have at least 3 votes. Sorry, but you can not plus that tree.

That earlier post must have gotten burried or something, but it seemed alot like your question now.

LMBO, now I see the original was your question. Sorry, I did not mean to answer it twice, didn't realize that you wanted something more official, just thought it was like alot of times, similar question from different folks and I was too lazy to go look up the old thread.

I do remember Todd answering this one before though and it has always been as I said, it takes 3 on a four dog cast no matter who is where.

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 11-03-2004 11:01 PM:

TODD K.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by sweetwater on 11-04-2004 12:43 AM:

Rip I think you are wrong all it takes is the judge and one cast member to plus a tree.remember in case of a tie the judge has the final say.and as long as the scratched dogs handler is still with the cast he is part of the cast.

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Posted by Darrell on 11-04-2004 03:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sweetwater
Rip I think you are wrong all it takes is the judge and one cast member to plus a tree.remember in case of a tie the judge has the final say.and as long as the scratched dogs handler is still with the cast he is part of the cast.

You need to go back to Nite Hunt Rules 101 before trying to correct anyone else, and study very hard. Two out of your three statements are incorrect. That's a flunking grade in any class...

Posted by WILD DOG on 11-04-2004 03:45 PM:

so far dont anyone know the rules except maybe darryl, if a judge gives permission for a handler to go to a split tree. the remaining cast members will score the 1st tree. then go to the split tree[where handler is waiting on the judge] and score that tree. why does the rule say judge may give permission for handler to go to split tree,but cannot be shined until judge gets there? lets use some 1st grade common sence on this people this isnt rocket science.

Posted by John Wittenborn on 11-04-2004 04:27 PM:

Kenneth, & a couple of other guy's on here,

go to Rule #18, & look at b-3. That answers the question, that was asked on here.

The only way that, that tree could be plused, was if there was NO QUESTION, & all three HANDLERS at THAT TREE AGREED ON EVERYTHING. As soon as a question arose, & a vote was ready to be taken , then they needed the FOURTH HANDLER. This is why the Judge (also Handler of dog D) should have told the Handler of dog A to tie his dog up, & come back to the other tree.

WILD DOG, I thought I just HEARD A ROCKET TAKE OFF. LOL

Had to kid you just a little.

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 11-04-2004 10:32 PM:

Hey Todd!

Are you still living?

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 11-05-2004 02:17 PM:

That tree cannot be plussed according to the rules. Majority of cast is majority of cast no exceptions. Now, I would guess that's one of the most abused situations in the rules and gets questioned very little. It almost seems like it has become common place to split up and score trees using the majority of those present but that is not correct. The handler of the split treed dog has the right to go tie his dog but correct procedure would be for him to come back and help score the first tree then everyone go score the split tree.

I'll give a passing grade to Rip, Darrell and JohnW on this one.

Posted by WILD DOG on 11-05-2004 08:44 PM:

TODD, not questioning your call. ill abide but the ruling. but why does the rules say the handler can go to the slit tree but the tree cant be shined until judge gets there.? seem that it is insenuating that there is someone already there to meand they cant shine until the judge gets there. if all were together you wouldnt wait until judge gets there he would be the 1st one there. not tring to argue thats just how i see the wording. maybe you would explain a little that i might understand better. and if not ill still except your ruling

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 11-05-2004 08:47 PM:

I'll tell you why I think it says that. When that rule was written, at least half the casts were non-hunting judge casts. That was when non-hunting judges were required in Nites and Grands. On a non-hunting judge cast, the handler of the split dog could stay with the dog as he would not be required to vote on scoring the other tree. That's why I think that wording still exists.

Posted by WILD DOG on 11-05-2004 09:15 PM:

make sence to me, ok thanks

Posted by K. Singletary on 11-05-2004 10:25 PM:

Todd, that explanation makes alot of sense. But, if there was a question on an agressive dog and one guy was gone to a split tree. The hunting judge does not feel there is a problem (his dog) but the other 2 cast members present do, what would you do? Do you now use the majority at the tree or do you use a majority of the cast?

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 11-05-2004 10:30 PM:

So the other two guys question the judge and bring it to vote? If that's the case, then the whole cast must vote. I know what you're going to say next. How can the guy that wasn't there vote? The same way a MOH or the complaint committee must make a decision when they weren't there either. You have to take what information is available to you at the time and make the best decision that you can.

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 11-05-2004 10:32 PM:

If there were only three people at the tree(4 dog cast) and all saw the judges dog grab another. Judge says he didn't see anything. 2 to 1 vote. Is he scrstched or not?

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