UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Beagles (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=3)
-- Rules question - hunting beagle (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=305429)

Rules question - hunting beagle

Can a cast get plus strike points if no members or judge saw the rabbit?

no

__________________
R&R's Kennels
Home of:
HBCH CH R&R's Mtn Hi-Timin Thrasher
Ch 'PR' Spruce Run Duke 2
R&R's Super Freak
R&R's Rollin' In The Deep Adele

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
LPGRCH LPBCH CH HBCH Hunter`s Go Get-Em Jake

Check out www.badluckkennels.weebly.com

Nope , Majority of cast members with a hunting judge MUST see it to plus it.
BUT if a NON HUNTING judge is used only he has to see it.

__________________
GOTTA GO KENNELS !!!!! As Good as the Best and Better than the REST
Home of
2008 Black Gold National JR State Race Run Off Champion GRCH HBCH PR GOTTA GO SEE YA BYE

.. don't forget the rest

... and then after it's seen by a hunting judge or the majority of the cast it must be scored on speed and drive or go to a hole or place of refuge.

Just seeing the rabbit doesn't automatically qualify the track for plus points!

Your right I just didn't go that far.

__________________
GOTTA GO KENNELS !!!!! As Good as the Best and Better than the REST
Home of
2008 Black Gold National JR State Race Run Off Champion GRCH HBCH PR GOTTA GO SEE YA BYE

IT OLNY TAKES ONE PERSON TO SEE THE RABBIT IT TAKES MAJORITY OR NONHUNTING JUDGE TO SCORE THE LINE

__________________
home of
HBCH Elmer Fudd Chapko
HBCH Simple Plesures Ace
NIGHT CHAMPION TARA STORM CHAPKO

or hunt time is up --to score strike after judge or majority in cast see the rabbit

__________________
ALLNITER DOUG CHEEK

ALWAYS GO BY THE RULES AND NEVER A PROBLEM

HOW ABOUT A CHECK

IF DOGS RUN RABBIT FOR A WHILE NEVER SEEN 2 CHECKS COME ABOUT ON TRACK POINTS ARE CIRCLED PLACE OF REFUGEIS IS DEC. POINTS ARE CIRCLED AND CHECKS ARE ONLY USED FOR TIE BREAKER RIGHT FOR LESS AMOUNT OF NEGITIVE RIGHT????? IVE SEEN IT GO EITHER WAY USELY FOR SOME ONE ELSE BENEFIT?

__________________
FEED WHAT ONLY FEEDS YOU/ CANT FILL UP A GAME BAG FLIPPING QUARTERS!

Ties are broken like this. It's always in the same order. It's written right on the back of the scorecard so don't let someone screw you on it.

1. least minus points, if still tied then
2. most plus strike points, if still tied then
3. most plus speed / drive points, if still tied then
4. most recovery points, if still tied then
5. most circled strike points, if still tied then
6. dogs hunt in one hour intervals until tie is broken.

If everyone agrees, you can skip step 6 and flip a coin.

(This one got me on my first hunt. After winners pack, I was tied with one other dog. That dog was on the clock for the last 4 minutes of the cast and would not hunt. I didn't know you could keep hunting in one hour intervals. If I did, I would have won after the first five minutes due to the other dog getting scratched. I thought the only option was to coin flip and I lost. I told myself that day I was going to learn these rules in and out and would not be beat by my own ignorance again!)

Justsandm
I got brought into the beagle world on a similar note.........Took a screwin from a state rep and vowed then and there to learn the rules like you.
I only have 1 thing to add............. LEARN THE RULES dont nit pick and look for holes in them,
Sure there are "GRAY AREAS" ........I agree 100%, AND there ALWAYS will be.
In order for every little situation that can come up to be covered and printed IN THE RULES in balck and white , The rule book would look like the bible.
I am not trying to bash you or make you out to be someone your not, I'm just trying to save you some agony down the road .
Things take time to change and BELIEVE ME ..........................
They've changed since back when I started

__________________
GOTTA GO KENNELS !!!!! As Good as the Best and Better than the REST
Home of
2008 Black Gold National JR State Race Run Off Champion GRCH HBCH PR GOTTA GO SEE YA BYE

Scott,

Nobody screwed me, but me. I didn't know what I was doing and I got what I deserved. If someone loses because they don't know the game (me, in this case) it's nobodies fault but their own.

I'm not looking for holes. A lot of problems lie in the fact that where there are holes, people have adopted their own set of "rules" to fill in the gray area. (Such as, I think you were very confident that you had to handle dogs after a dead track, but you don't. You put "you MUST handle the dogs", then in a later post you put that sometimes you give the option not to handle the dogs. You went against what you had just said) These made up rules work most of the time, but the problem is that they don't work in all situations. Such as with the question about what to do with the dog on time. I have just answered his question with what I would have done, and there was nothing wrong with it. Some people, including you, said it couldn't be done the way I said, so I explained why it could. The "made up" rules were now believed to be "actual" rules. I just had people to relook at the rules and see what was really there.

If the UKC ever wants to be THE dog registry they will need to cover these areas of question. Look at all the major players in the world of sports (NFL, NBA, PGA, MLB, etc). How many things could happen during the period of game play? A LOT. How many of these things aren't covered by some type of rule or regulation? Almost zero. That is why these leagues are such successes. Gray area causes controversy and unfairness. The unfairness is not always due to the people, but due to the lack of the proper amount of rules.

If it takes a book the size of "War & Peace", so what? I don't think that's necessary, though. There are a lot of easy fixes that would cover a lot of the controversy. UKC could look back through the last year of two of posts involving rules and see which issues are most common and get some fixes for them.

I don't think that you can nit pick rules. If it's there, it's meant to be followed. Again, I'm not the one looking for holes, I'm following whats written. The people that are filling in holes with their own are the ones that need to relook.

I agree ,Hope I didn't upset you,
I'm not "MAKING UP RULES" Just stating what I've learned and been told BY UKC in the past. Thats why we have rules seminars Question / Answer colums ect. And this board ......So we can ALL learn
Thats also why we have State Reps, Rules Commitee, and a MOH at every hunt... To handle questions AND grey areas
I have been judged many times by State Reps, and even been Judged by UKC officials like Todd Morgan & Jed Nichols. And they ALL DO IT in the same manner
You have a great point though, the handle dog thing needs clarified as well as dog on the clock.
Until it IS clarified I will continue to judge the way I always have.
"FOLLOW THE RULES but add COMMON SENCE"
Bet you won't find TOO many judges that have judged as many casts as me and brought back fewer Questions.
PS Just my oppinion and everyone knows what oppinions are like LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
GOTTA GO KENNELS !!!!! As Good as the Best and Better than the REST
Home of
2008 Black Gold National JR State Race Run Off Champion GRCH HBCH PR GOTTA GO SEE YA BYE

Scott, you just have me so confused now, I'm not even sure what I'm suppose to call you now. Is it Scott, Opionion, or that other word. Maybe I'll just call you all three. ROTHFLMAO

You don't get cheated because you do not know the rules as well as others. You get cheated because you get cheated. There are other cast members in the hunt and usually one of them knows the rules very well. If that cast member allows your dog to lose because you do not know the rules and he knows better, he is a CHEAT.

There are plenty of just plain cheats out there. Fortunately, there are some honest folks that make competition beagling fun.

__________________
Dave Haugh

LAKELAND KENNELS
____________________________
English Coonhounds
____________________________
Gr Ch Lakeland's Phoebe
PKC Sq Ch Lakeland's Mini Mouse
____________________________
Mt Curs
____________________________
Ch SqCh Lakeland's Lucy
SqCh Lakeland's Goldie
SqCh Lakeland's Kate
____________________________
Beagles
____________________________
Dual GrCh Blank's Midnight
GrCh HBCh Lakeland's Cricket II

_______________________________

Before we know it Redtick will be hired to film each cast and we will be having instant replay back at hunt headquarters and the MOH will be able to make the call when a question comes up.

Oh wait, his/her interprutation of the rule on how it is to be applied will be the final decision.

I am a football official and not every little thing is covered in the rule book you just dont see those wierd things that often. But, level headed officials will make the right call because they will use common sense. Just to make you aware when a new football rule comes out we have a intreputer for our local association go to the state meeting on how the rule is to be applied he/she then comes back and tells the association what we should be looking for and how it should be applied. That is good but, I am also licensed in another state to officiate and when I go to that states meetings they want it to be applied a little differently. No I dont officiate in the NFL but I do High School Football and we fall under the rules set forth by the National Federation of State High School Associations just like your local club is when they hold a UKC EVENT. So as you can see it is all not cut and dry in the football officials rule book either.

But there are not to many sports that you can play and still have a vote/say on how things are to be done. Granted in this sport SOME people are going to do what is the best for their dog but there will be some that do what is the right call wether or not it benefits their hound or not. Most of the sports I have been associated with you have another person or group other than those involved in the activity apply the rules. Maybe we should go to all non-hunting judges so we will see how long the program will survive.

Learn the rules and how they should be applied and you will save yourself alot of aggrevation with the program. The problem with it is not everyone wants to learn how the rules are to be applied.

__________________
Mountain View Beagles
"Where Hunt and Show are One"

Check us out on the web:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeuq9zn/

about every ukc hunt i ever been too but one or two i feel that i got cheated on one occasion this was my 2nd hunt we had a hunting judge he never would strike his dog in said he couldnt hear her hell they all were screaming hot after the rabbit then the last 10 minutes of the hunt he struck his female in you know who won the hunt the judge of course i know i didnt know the rules but there were other handlers there but they wouldnt speak up my female n his were running a rabbit by themselfs the other dogs jumped one down the hill after a few minutes my dog n the judges dog went to the other dogs he minus my dog for leaving track but didnt his then he still wouldnt strike his dog in i got tired of this bs so i quit going i shouldve learned the rules but i didnt jb

__________________
JUST AS JOHN SEES IT

Big Al - We simply have different opinions on the "got cheated" subject. I simply feel that it is each persons duty to know the rules of the game they are playing. It is their responsibility. I didn't know I didn't have to flip a coin at the end of that hunt. Even if every one else knew it, I didn't. I don't blame them for not telling me. I should have known that. If I was a kid, then that would be different. But, I'm not. I lost because I wasn't as prepared as my competition. It was my fault, no one elses.

WVBill - Can you imagine an NFL game ran with only enough rules to cover the back of a UKC scorecard?
Sometimes I think that's how they regulate how many they have.
"Well boys, the back of the card is full so we can either make the card bigger, make the type smaller, or we'll have to get rid of a rule if we want to add another"!

LOL