UKC Forums - Dead loners

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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 03-02-2014 06:11 PM:

Dead loners

What everyone's thoughts on the dead loner type hound I got two young male's that I raised that go the opposite direction when cut loose

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Posted by Wayne Valentino on 03-02-2014 07:00 PM:

Loners

don't like em, they are not balanced... Bred for scorecards not coonhunting.... If they strike their own track while hunting they should tree their own track and stick.. If they strike together they should tree together.. This horse racing and running different directions ON PURPOSE is a fault.. Dogs in their true state are a pack animal not loners... I understand why competition hunters want em... But if that is what ya got, don't expect me to buy your pups... I WANT THE PROPER AMOUNT of independance... these ones that tree and as soon as another dog shows up they leave and go tree elsewhere NEED CULLED or at least never bred..

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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 03-02-2014 07:06 PM:

Oh I'm not trying to peddle them Wayne was just wondering what everyone though on that type of dog they are REAL tight bred and I'm sure that is the cause of it I like a dog that looks to get split but those that do that and get some of yours as well is tuff to beat in my opinion

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Posted by Ron Jackson on 03-02-2014 07:20 PM:

I like alot of independence but not to the point of stupidity as you just described.

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 03-02-2014 07:21 PM:

statement

was just a general statement... I want to know who is breeding em for this DEAD LONER stuff so I can run from em like my butt is on fire.... I am aware of some, and believe me they will never eat my feed just like the warm nosed ones also... Want a Walker style dog ??? Go buy a Walker... Can you tell I don't like em..lol... to me it shows lack of brains.. JMHO.... had one here should have shot her instead of sending her back... made my life miserable..

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 03-02-2014 07:34 PM:

I don't think brain power is the problem they seem as smart as a collie courious to see if they come out of some of it with age and I will be the first to say there can be to much independence

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Posted by Vic Stoll on 03-02-2014 08:04 PM:

Re: statement

quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Valentino
was just a general statement... I want to know who is breeding em for this DEAD LONER stuff so I can run from em like my butt is on fire.... I am aware of some, and believe me they will never eat my feed just like the warm nosed ones also... Want a Walker style dog ??? Go buy a Walker... Can you tell I don't like em..lol... to me it shows lack of brains.. JMHO.... had one here should have shot her instead of sending her back... made my life miserable..

Wayne you are painting with a wide brush. I owned one out of Wills Creek Ben and Mike Lorenzo's Jessie female that was just as you described. Would leave a tree if another dog came into him. Never treed with another dog. Mike's Jesse female was out of northern blue Sampson. I am in no way trying to bash either man's dog, just the fact it exists in every strain out there. To say they all need culled would mean you would not own some of the dogs you hunt today. Just trying to say there are two sides to every coin.

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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 03-02-2014 08:15 PM:

Now I'm not talking about leaving a tree if a dog comes in

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Posted by Bluedog65775 on 03-02-2014 08:15 PM:

Dead Loners

They're a bit aggravating (to me) when your tryin'ta go on a pleasure hunt with a buddy. But, "can be" hard'ta beat in a hunt. I know that's why competition hunters like them. Personally, I want one that has enough independence'ta work its own track, finish it and stay treed regardless of what other hounds are or are not doing. I guess that's the amount of independence I like personally. Don't really care for the "dead loners" but understand why some do.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 03-02-2014 08:29 PM:

im not into deadloners. i like a nice balance dog.

Posted by stillwater farm on 03-02-2014 08:37 PM:

LOVE THEM.We have way to many coon around here to be packed up together all night......

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Posted by Vic Stoll on 03-02-2014 08:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
LOVE THEM.We have way to many coon around here to be packed up together all night......

LOL. Now that"s the Tom Jennings I know!

Posted by patches9452 on 03-02-2014 08:55 PM:

I could care less if they are alone or not.... I want them first and accurate

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 03-02-2014 09:00 PM:

totally understand everyone who has commented so far.. I need em to run what they strike regardless of company.. Those tree leavers need to go to someone who hunts alone for pleasure after they are spade. Seen Blues and an English like that.. HATE EM... Vic, mine pack or split and are deaf at the tree to others.. I like em that way.. But some I've come across are just wacko.. The one you described fits that description... Never seen one of that blood do it but as you said My Brush was wide... Guess it can happen in em all, but some I've seen are worse than others.. and I will always steer clear, just like those warm nosed wonders..

I wish guys would advertise em as such..

Posted by hat creek mac on 03-02-2014 09:43 PM:

the question was asked what everyone thought about a dead loner....it was then turned into dogs that leave trees.

A dog that leaves a tree because he doesn't want company is socially dysfunctional. He is queer to the point of not EVER wanting to be around other dogs.

Not ALL of the loners are that way. In my mind, a loner is a dog that tries to get away from the pack but has treeing coon in mind. If they go one way, he usually goes the other, but once treed, he sticks. THAT is the kind that can go win and win regular in most places. A dog that breaks his neck to pack and back others when treed is not my cup of tea.

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 03-02-2014 10:24 PM:

better way

to say it, social dysfunctional... Thanks Hat Creek Mac !! Those type of loners are the culls.. The others have their place with those who desire em.. I want mine in the middle...... I also agree on the Me Too types that cover everything, they got something missing too....

Still wished I would have culled the social dysfunctional I had here many years ago.. That moron made me crazy...

Posted by pamjohnson on 03-02-2014 11:41 PM:

the title was dead loners not independent. deadloner wont and dont tree with another ever, ever. 1 way or another ever. other wise it's not alone.

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 03-03-2014 12:07 AM:

I guess I should have worded it better sorry I just fig leaving the tree for any reason would be common sense and not accepted

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Posted by McSquizzie on 03-03-2014 12:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by BIG$BLUES
I guess I should haves worded it better sorry I just fig leaving the tree for any reason would be common sense and not accepted

Common sense? On a bluetick forum? Lol

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Posted by hat creek mac on 03-03-2014 02:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by McSquizzie
Common sense? On a bluetick forum? Lol

X 2

Posted by Vic Stoll on 03-03-2014 06:23 PM:

LOL

This thread is a classic example of the human "interpretation" factor. What one considers a dead loner, another considers independent. Go figure! Somewhere along the line common sense got thrown in to the mix .... yet another subject wide open to that interpretation thing.

It's all relative I guess. Travis, to answer your question, I love a naturally independent hound. One that is consistent every time either solo or w/company. I don't care for the ones that waste time & real estate trying to get away from others and pass up coon while doing so.

Best of luck with your young males.

Posted by hat creek mac on 03-03-2014 06:41 PM:

I've got an honest question for some of you guys that know way more than I do about dogs.

My hunting buddy's dog is struck or even treed nearby and I unload mine and fire them in the opposite direction and KNOW that I don't have to worry about them looping around and covering that dog on track or tree

Is that dog a loner or just independent?

How many of you have dogs that you can do that with?

Let's say you lead off a tree and there is a dog treed on in the woods deeper. If you cut yours, will they go and back that dog?

Is a dog that refuses to go back that treed dog a loner or just independent?

I would HONESTLY like to know if most people consider this type independence to be undesirable

Posted by hat creek mac on 03-03-2014 06:47 PM:

by the way.....

LONER is define as---one who PREFERS to be alone

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 03-03-2014 07:08 PM:

I have hunted with the sire of these pups several times and he is the type that starts hunting as soon as the dog box door opens he comes out with his nose in the air will tree with others but likes to sneak off to get alone every chance he gets

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Travis Duvall owned and operated

NTCH DUVALL'S BIG MONEY SLIDDER

Home of those with drive!
Speak the truth it will set you free.

Posted by Vic Stoll on 03-03-2014 09:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
I would HONESTLY like to know if most people consider this type independence to be undesirable

loner
1. a person or animal who avoids the company of others or prefers to be alone

Don't know way more about anything. From the scenarios you described, as you just stated, it is independence, be it natural or man made. Been made a liar out of too many times to claim I have one that would do as you described every time. Yes, I think it (not man made) is very desirable & I would like to be able to make that claim.

Scenario .... you & your hunting partner dump out & both dogs immediately strike red hot. Both dogs are driving the track neck & neck, 30 seconds later your partners dog jams treed. Your dog hushes, goes on & strikes another track in deeper. Is your dog independent, or a loner?

Scenario ... 3 dog cast, dogs A & B are split treed in the woods where dropped. Dog C goes to the next section & gets wooded. Dogs A & B trees are scored. While walking out the back side of the woods you turned loose in that dog C left out of to go score C's tree you see a coon sitting up. Is C a loner, or independent?

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