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-- What a mess! Some more rules drama and not following them (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=352354)

What a mess! Some more rules drama and not following them

4 dog cast, non hunting judge....dog a,b,c declared treed, dog d is still running....get to the tree to score it, and the shining begins....two minutes have gone by and dog b's handler starts clapping....handler of dog a immediately turns to the other members of the cast to verify that they heard handler of dog b clapping and should be scratched. Handler of dog a votes to scratch, handler of dog c votes to scratch, handler of dog d votes to scratch...While this is going on dog d comes into the tree and is handled...After 3 of the members of the cast voted to scratch the handler of dog b, the judge claims that clapping is not a scratchable offense and I did not hear handler of dog b clap. All three handlers tell the judge he is wrong and to put a question on the card...Judge says again that is not a scratchable offense, he tells the cast to continue on or they will all be scratched for "causing trouble"....the tree is scored circle and dogs are lead away...as they are re-casted handler of dog b turns his dog loose as well. Once that happened the three remaining handlers speak up and say that dog was scratched...Once they claimed that dog should not have been turned loose they find out the Judge did not put a scratch or a question mark on the card like he was supposed to....After the 3 handlers with the issue start raising there voice and telling the judge he is not following the rules the judge then writes scratched on the card for handler of dog b....When they get back to the club house both scratch and a ? mark is found to be on the card.....Master of hounds sides with the judge and does not over rule the judge not putting the ? on the card like he was instructed to and a formal complaint is filed......

Any thoughts on this situation?

Also handler of dog b claimed he had a gun in his truck before the cast went to the woods.

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“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

There is no cast vote when a non-hunting judge is used. You just put your question on the card and since it is a scratcgh question, the guy takes his scratch or you go back to the MOH. And no, you can't clap if you can't squall.

Re: What a mess! Some more rules drama and not following them

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Raleigh


Any thoughts on this situation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
There is no cast vote when a non-hunting judge is used. You just put your question on the card and since it is a scratcgh question, the guy takes his scratch or you go back to the MOH. And no, you can't clap if you can't squall.

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My understanding is that you cannot do ANYTHING except shine until the point where squalling is allowed.
Clapping, banging on the tree, pulling vines, etc are all considered the same as squalling under the rules.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
My understanding is that you cannot do ANYTHING except shine until the point where squalling is allowed.
Clapping, banging on the tree, pulling vines, etc are all considered the same as squalling under the rules.

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i read some where it said no encouragement or discouraging
dogs,is clapping a squaller what rule says no clapping.

It would appear to me that the judge waited too long to scratch the handler. Scratch should happen at the time of the offense. No mark on the card means no question. The other handlers should have at least warned for attempting to influence a non-hunting judge to affect the out come of the cast.
With all this said, this is why I stay at home instead wasting time and money.

quote:

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Originally posted by runnin rebels
Yes rule 26 A section g clearly states that "squalling, clapping banging on the tree, jumping up and down are all considered equal." Jeez it's like Jim has the only copy of the rules.

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Sounds like a bunch of Babies just wanting somebody scratched to me. That's ukc

Many Questions Unanswered

This situation has many underlaying questions,

1. Why was there a nonhunting judge? Did the club / MOH know that this was a potential problem cast?

2. Was the nonhunting judge capable of running a potential problem cast? Did he know the rules well? Was he willing to follow the rules, no matter what?

3. Why did the nonhunting judge not hear the 'clap'? Was it a number of 'claps' or was it just one 'clap'? Is a 'clap' interference or is it the same as squalling? Where is that in the rules or in the vast volumes of Advisor?

4. Was handler b and the judge close friends? Were handlers a, c, and d just wanting to quickly get rid of handler b.

5. Why was there not a question put on the scorecard at the time of the offense? Who's responsibility is it to ensure that the question was put on the scorecard at the time of the offense?

6. Why did the cast continue with a scratching question in play, on the card or not, handlers a, c, and d knew there was a question? Why turn their dogs loose until it was resolved?

7. How did the MOH rule? What rules did he use? Did he scratch handler b or not?

8. Was a Formal Complaint filed? Was there a committee? Was there a Formal Complaint Meeting? What rules were listed on the Formal Complaint form?

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Re: Many Questions Unanswered

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry West
This situation has many underlaying questions,

1. Why was there a nonhunting judge? Did the club / MOH know that this was a potential problem cast?

2. Was the nonhunting judge capable of running a potential problem cast? Did he know the rules well? Was he willing to follow the rules, no matter what?

3. Why did the nonhunting judge not hear the 'clap'? Was it a number of 'claps' or was it just one 'clap'? Is a 'clap' interference or is it the same as squalling? Where is that in the rules or in the vast volumes of Advisor?

4. Was handler b and the judge close friends? Were handlers a, c, and d just wanting to quickly get rid of handler b.

5. Why was there not a question put on the scorecard at the time of the offense? Who's responsibility is it to ensure that the question was put on the scorecard at the time of the offense?

6. Why did the cast continue with a scratching question in play, on the card or not, handlers a, c, and d knew there was a question? Why turn their dogs loose until it was resolved?

7. How did the MOH rule? What rules did he use? Did he scratch handler b or not?

8. Was a Formal Complaint filed? Was there a committee? Was there a Formal Complaint Meeting? What rules were listed on the Formal Complaint form?

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__________________
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Make It Simple

Now that the 'POT' has be stired sufficently:

Going by Rules and Honor!!!!!!!! THE NONHUNTING JUDGE HAS THE AUTHORITY.

If the clap interfered with dog d, the nonhunting judge can rule to scratch handler b. If handler b wants to put a ?, he may do so and go thru the process.

If the nonhunting judge does not think dog d was interferered with he may not scratch handler b. At that time handlers a, c, and d or any one of them may put a ?, and they then go thru the process.

Or nothing at all be done!!!! All strike and tree points are circled!!! No harm, no foul!!!! Everyone goes on with a good attitude and the hunt continues with no question, no more comments, and no more problems!!!!!!!

SEE, it can be simple and very easy, Jerry West

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Re: Re: Many Questions Unanswered

quote:

---

Originally posted by CSnowgren
Who were the attorneys handling the case? Was time allowed for discovery? If not, why? If so, was it filed and made available to both the plaintiff and defendant? Were both sides allowed fact finding? Why was a mediator used instead of going to the judge? Does reasonable doubt effect the jury verdict or will it automatically go to an appeals court? lmao Sign me up sign me up!

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Yes, CSnowgren,

That is my point in satire!

Many times rules become such a 'over done legal point' that we totally ruin good, clean, fun, compitition.

LET THE DOGS HUNT

__________________
Allbluez51@aol.com
Gone, But not forgotten!
Ch Gr Nite Ch Nolan Creek Go-Yonder Rowdy (Grandson of Spare Time Spanky)
Gr Ch Nt Ch Nolan Creek Chief's Pride (Grandson and greatgrandson to Smokey River Chief)
Dual Ch Nolan Creek Thundering Apache
Nite Ch Gr Ch Nolan Creek Blue Sable
Dual Ch Nolan Crk Diamond HTX2

Still Standing Proud!!
Gr Ch Nt Ch Nolan Creek Chug-A-Lug
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Ch Nolan Creek Lonesome Dove

Nolan Creek Blue Chug-A-Lug Jr HTX
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quote:

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Originally posted by Deerslayer11
Sounds like a bunch of Babies just wanting somebody scratched to me. That's ukc

---

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Come on people drop you're ego and admitt you just got beat, made a bad call, dog made a mistake, what ever.You can't get cheated that much

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry West
Yes, CSnowgren,

That is my point in satire!

Many times rules become such a 'over done legal point' that we totally ruin good, clean, fun, compitition.

LET THE DOGS HUNT

---

__________________
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”