UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- ? for you dog food experts (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=346876)

? for you dog food experts

what protien/fat ratio is best for hot weather. if
1# if you hunt your dog hard
2# if you are only hunting 1 or 2 hr . 2 or 3 nights aweek

is it the protien or fat that gets a dog hot.?
not looking for what feed is best just looking for the best PROTIEN / FAT RATIO for hot weather ......

__________________
Doug
( It"s nice to have a tree dog but the name of the game is to have a coon in the tree ! )

I feed Southern States 21/9 in summer $12.35 a 40 lb bag.
I feed Southern States 24/20 Complete when hunting hard and cold weather.$15.75 a 40lb bag.
It works for me.

Glynn Holmes

I feed Pride 21/17 chicken and rice, almost a quart a day.
Was feedin 24/20, 1 full quart a day.
Some have even drop down to 22/10, but corn is the first ingredient, so that's out of the equation for me.

__________________
BACKWOOD'S SUPPLIES
Supplies for the Coon Hunter and his Hound.
BILL TIPTON
bwsupplies@aol.com
704-791-7751
36479 NC HWY 49
New London, NC, 28127
President of the SBA
Member of the BBOA & BBCHA
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Backwoods-Supplies/167389623298613

Nothing you do will keep your dog from running hot. There are things you can do and certain feed you can give that will help you recover/cool quicker but if you don't do it all, you may as well not do any of it. On the surface, protein nor fat will make your dog run hot, carbs will. Carbs come from grain based "protein" like corn and the host of ways/forms corn is delivered. Rice is also a common grain however it is a carb. A side effect of feeding grains is the carb load. Carbs affect dogs the same way they do people, they retain water. Excess water will keep your dog hotter longer. Think of yourself running with a wet blanket, same goes for the dogs. There is no way to limit the water intake when fed in this manner as it takes an incredible amount of water for digestion of the grain heavy feed. Heavy carbs are not needed for energy like they are for us. Dogs get their energy from fat first, and carbs 2nd or 3rd. Lack of fat in a diet will also take the wind from their sails. My suggestion to you is to feed a food that is low in carbs and high in protein and fat for the heavy hunting you said you will do. Forget the numbers, focus on what makes up those numbers. They will run hot regardless, they aren't machines. I like hunting with the $20 per 50 lb bag guys in the summer, thats when you really see the difference in feed. They blow hot and don't recover. Their dogs continue to hunt on heart and they (owner) never knows the difference. Mine is recovering between trees and drops and coming hard each drop, theirs fades as the night goes on. Guys are constantly giving their dogs drinks, loading up their bellies, mine takes a few laps and they are usually good. Yet another advantage. Its more than just protein and numbers.

__________________
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

quote:

---

Originally posted by CSnowgren
Nothing you do will keep your dog from running hot. There are things you can do and certain feed you can give that will help you recover/cool quicker but if you don't do it all, you may as well not do any of it. On the surface, protein nor fat will make your dog run hot, carbs will. Carbs come from grain based "protein" like corn and the host of ways/forms corn is delivered. Rice is also a common grain however it is a carb. A side effect of feeding grains is the carb load. Carbs affect dogs the same way they do people, they retain water. Excess water will keep your dog hotter longer. Think of yourself running with a wet blanket, same goes for the dogs. There is no way to limit the water intake when fed in this manner as it takes an incredible amount of water for digestion of the grain heavy feed. Heavy carbs are not needed for energy like they are for us. Dogs get their energy from fat first, and carbs 2nd or 3rd. Lack of fat in a diet will also take the wind from their sails. My suggestion to you is to feed a food that is low in carbs and high in protein and fat for the heavy hunting you said you will do. Forget the numbers, focus on what makes up those numbers. They will run hot regardless, they aren't machines. I like hunting with the $20 per 50 lb bag guys in the summer, thats when you really see the difference in feed. They blow hot and don't recover. Their dogs continue to hunt on heart and they (owner) never knows the difference. Mine is recovering between trees and drops and coming hard each drop, theirs fades as the night goes on. Guys are constantly giving their dogs drinks, loading up their bellies, mine takes a few laps and they are usually good. Yet another advantage. Its more than just protein and numbers.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CSnowgren
Nothing you do will keep your dog from running hot. There are things you can do and certain feed you can give that will help you recover/cool quicker but if you don't do it all, you may as well not do any of it. On the surface, protein nor fat will make your dog run hot, carbs will. Carbs come from grain based "protein" like corn and the host of ways/forms corn is delivered. Rice is also a common grain however it is a carb. A side effect of feeding grains is the carb load. Carbs affect dogs the same way they do people, they retain water. Excess water will keep your dog hotter longer. Think of yourself running with a wet blanket, same goes for the dogs. There is no way to limit the water intake when fed in this manner as it takes an incredible amount of water for digestion of the grain heavy feed. Heavy carbs are not needed for energy like they are for us. Dogs get their energy from fat first, and carbs 2nd or 3rd. Lack of fat in a diet will also take the wind from their sails. My suggestion to you is to feed a food that is low in carbs and high in protein and fat for the heavy hunting you said you will do. Forget the numbers, focus on what makes up those numbers. They will run hot regardless, they aren't machines. I like hunting with the $20 per 50 lb bag guys in the summer, thats when you really see the difference in feed. They blow hot and don't recover. Their dogs continue to hunt on heart and they (owner) never knows the difference. Mine is recovering between trees and drops and coming hard each drop, theirs fades as the night goes on. Guys are constantly giving their dogs drinks, loading up their bellies, mine takes a few laps and they are usually good. Yet another advantage. Its more than just protein and numbers.

---

__________________
Red Ryder coonhounds.
Home of the
Xtreme Hyde Dawg

Home of,
PR Nitech Leinie Red Ryder
PR Jan Da Red Ryder Butcher ( JJ )

You are not asking what is best for conditions, you are asking what we feed our dogs during these conditions. All of our dogs are going to be somewhat different depending on the conditions that we live and hunt in.

For me I feed Ultra Advantage 24/20 currently. Hunting the young dog pretty hard here lately, doing real well.

__________________
Rip Acorn Creek Black Swamp Jester

In Honor of Jim Sizemore, " This ain't no benchshow!"

CS you have a pm.

__________________
*RIP* Skunk Creek Star
Home of: Thunder Blaze
Jet V Again's Blue Drum
Southern Blue Copper

Like CS says it is the quality of the dog food you feed. Another thing to add is the weight of your dogs. Heavy dogs heat up quicker and slow down sooner. I feed Hi-Standard and in the winter they get 26/18 and in the summer they get 23/16. I switch them because they don't need the extra fat and protein at this time. In all the years I have been hunting I never had a dog get to hot. I have hunted them in 80 degree weather and -15 degree and have never had a problem.

good input

cs good point.
i was talking to a guy he was saying go low fat/low protien
i was thinking you need fuel to run on and go high protien and lower fat. he said protien makes them hot ?
thanks for the input....

__________________
Doug
( It"s nice to have a tree dog but the name of the game is to have a coon in the tree ! )

The one thing you boys failed to add to the equation is conditioning. Here if you dont have a dog in shape before it gets hot (95-100 with 80-90% humidity) you will kill them. Its not so bad when there is water in the woods but we have been in a drought until this year. Also dont over feed your dogs, a fat dog will run hot much faster than one in shape. I dont change my feed just the amount I feed the dog.

psiskjr

PM reply was too long bluedogtn so here ya go

This feed appears to me to be a mid-quality feed based on both the ingredients and the kcals. I am a stickler about feed so some of these opinions will result from my personal pet peeves so don't take it as the gospel. I don't like "meat meal". I want to know what meat is providing the bulk of protein. I don't care if its horse, but I want to know. The ground corn in this formula is providing the additional levels of protein, unfortunately corn is very hard for dogs to digest. So the % of protein on the bag can rise based on the inclusion of corn but the digestibility of it is much lower. This is where you want to pay attention to the kcals. The higher digestability, the greater the kcals. I do like the chicken fat though. My favorite source of energy by far, nothing I know of equals it in commercial dog food. I also like the preservative in this formula. Try to avoid BHA or BHT. Daily, repeated exposure has been linked to brain cancer in dogs. Yet BHA is a preservative used in human food sometimes, go figure. I don't care for any "by-product" material. This is generally the food stuffs remaining after processing and are less than desirable items, floor sweepings, feathers, individual animals unfit for human consumption, etc. While there is not a ton of grain in this formula as compared to others, it does make me wonder why beet pulp is #6 on the list. Makes me wonder if it is being used as a masking agent (to tighten stool) first and a nutritional benefit second. Beet pulp is a well known stool tightener on top of providing a nutritional benefit. Many formulators will take a cheap feed and add a few extra helpings of beet pulp in there to keep the dogs stool firm which in turn fools the owners into thinking its a quality feed because their dogs "have a nice tight stool". Coonhunters rarely advance past this stage in their thinking so they get duped into thinking their feed is "the best". Back to kcals, this formula has 4268 of metabolizable energy, the food I feed has 4710 (just to give you an idea). I also supplement on top of this putting me over 5000. The other aspect is that you say this food works for your dogs. Thats the other part, you have to believe in it based on what you see. Since you do, keep feeding it. But I don't think it would hurt to toss them a cooked chicken breast once in awhile or some tuna, jack mack, or even a hunk or red meat now and then to increase their quality protein profile. Especially if you hunt them hard. Good luck!

__________________
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Re: good input

quote:

---

Originally posted by BACKYARD MAN
cs good point.
i was talking to a guy he was saying go low fat/low protien
i was thinking you need fuel to run on and go high protien and lower fat. he said protien makes them hot ?
thanks for the input....

---

__________________
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Very Simple !! Grains/Corn turn to Sugar .. Leading to Hyper Active Systems .. Heat !!

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Than you CS. I appreciate the help. I try to keep my dogs as healthy as i can and i will throw them some meat as much as i can. We are sorda limited on the dogfood we can buy around here unless you drive an hour and a half. Ive looked into Purina Pro Plan several times,and i know it might be cheaper in the long run...but its hard to pay that much out at one time.

__________________
*RIP* Skunk Creek Star
Home of: Thunder Blaze
Jet V Again's Blue Drum
Southern Blue Copper

Blue Wilderness Salmon. Best dogfood you can feed. Dogs look great, you can't hunt them down, they don't get hot and the stool cleanup is the least I have seen yet. I haven't ever fed anything that compares to it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Blue Wilderness Salmon. Best dogfood you can feed. Dogs look great, you can't hunt them down, they don't get hot and the stool cleanup is the least I have seen yet. I haven't ever fed anything that compares to it.

---

__________________
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

My Dad's Opionion

My Dad gets a kick out of some these comments. He can figure out why everybody complains about the grains in dog food. He told me that he farmed for 50 years and only had three dogs. He never bought a bag of dog food in his life while he farmed. The dogs ate calf pellets and corn kernels and oats. What ever was left over in the mangers. He gave them milk water from the milk line twice a day. They got what ever table scraps where left over such as carrots, pancakes, potato peelings, left over bones. The only shot they got was there rabies shot. He never took these dogs to the vet once. There dog houses where empty 55 gallon metal barrels with straw put in the bottom. Two of the dogs lived to be 18 years old and the other live to be 14. Since he has quit farming and now buying dog food for his dogs he has gone through 3 dogs in 15 years and had to haul them to a vet 2-3 times a year. They even get to stay in a heat garage. He spent more money on these three and than he had in 50 years on the other three.

I don't know if I could treat my dogs like this but he wanted me to post his comments. I do remember his 3 dogs though and as a kid I don't ever remember him buying and dog food or taking the dogs to the vet. The springer we had I still hunted her when she was 15 years old.

Just my Dad's thoughts.