UKC Forums - best way to start pup

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Posted by jdw2920 on 01-09-2010 04:25 AM:

best way to start pup

What is the best way to start a pup? Is it better to use drags or cage coons or simply just take them to the woods but if just taking them how do they know what there after? Got some other young dogs have sent one to school n just hunted other one after showing cage coons n that seems to be better than the school. Never fooled with drags. Got a nice walker pup just wanting to do him justice and give him best chance of making it that I can.

Posted by JEFFHESTER on 01-09-2010 04:42 AM:

Pup

Hunt him with an old dog keep him away from mean dogs or junk runners and if your going to show a caged coon make sure you open the cage door. Only let him fight a coon in a controlled environment and make sure he's big enough to fight one. Usually the only coon my dogs see are the ones falling out of the tops of trees. I will from time to time let them fight a caged coon then let them run it up the tree and then kill it stone cold dead to them.
Jeff

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Posted by jdw2920 on 01-09-2010 04:53 AM:

Hey jeff where is some good hunting around charleston, calhoun, or riceville. I live in charleston and looking for some areas to go. Isn't there some property that is a reserve on upper or lower river road that leads to meigs co.

Posted by JEFFHESTER on 01-09-2010 05:34 AM:

Hunting

Lamonteville road..... but the bridge is out. The hunting is on the Meigs County side. Try the Rogers Creek Refuge. I'm not sure how the season runs at the refuge. You live close to Cleveland. I'd hunt the heck out of anywhere on Candy's Creek it's loaded with coon. Also go to Birchwood and hunt TVA land. I've personnally delivered overed a 1,000 coon to that area. Ummm, I mean I've heard there's a lot of coon there. You can hunt at the Sand Hill Crane Observatory area. Harrison Bay is also a place to hunt at Ooltewah. I hope this helps.
Jeff

Posted by coondogman on 01-09-2010 10:36 PM:

SQUIRRELS

Squirrel hunt them during the day, start them about 5 to 6 months old and take one at a time. A dog that will tree a squirrel will tree a coon. Has worked for me for 40 years. Guys will say they will tree a squirrel at night if you do that. Also in 40 years i have treed two squirrels at night.

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Posted by wishiwashunting on 01-09-2010 11:16 PM:

Not saying it is the best but here is what I do. I introduce them to a hide and play with them with the hide as a puppy. Then from playing with the hide I have the,m chase it. Then I work on laying a drag with a hide. Then I have it with me while hunting and tie it back at the tree and let the other dogs kill it. Then I hang it back up and let the dog tree on it if it will. I usually introduce it to a cage coon and get it to bark and then turn the coon loose and see if it can track it. I like to hunt with other dogs that I know that are not mean or trashy so it doesn't pick up bad habits from another dog. Once it is running and treeing with the other dogs I try to hunt it by itself. I try to find hot tracks so they will be easier for them ot build its confidence. I pet them up at the tree or when they do what I like and tell them no in a stern coice and pull away from what I don't want it to do. The main thing is keep it in the woods as much as possible and give it the opportunity to do what it was bred to do. If it doesn't have it in it it chances are it wopn't do it anyway. Good luck and happy hunitng.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-09-2010 11:44 PM:

I would say if you start them on squirrels you will allways have to wonder if it was a squirrel when you can't find a coon when shineing a tree. If you don't want them to hunt it don't let them mess with it.
How yo would start one depends on what you consider starting one. How old is it, what has been done with it so far, and what breed is it?

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Posted by Jim Hill on 01-09-2010 11:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wishiwashunting
Not saying it is the best but here is what I do. I introduce them to a hide and play with them with the hide as a puppy. Then from playing with the hide I have the,m chase it. Then I work on laying a drag with a hide. Then I have it with me while hunting and tie it back at the tree and let the other dogs kill it. Then I hang it back up and let the dog tree on it if it will. I usually introduce it to a cage coon and get it to bark and then turn the coon loose and see if it can track it. I like to hunt with other dogs that I know that are not mean or trashy so it doesn't pick up bad habits from another dog. Once it is running and treeing with the other dogs I try to hunt it by itself. I try to find hot tracks so they will be easier for them ot build its confidence. I pet them up at the tree or when they do what I like and tell them no in a stern coice and pull away from what I don't want it to do. The main thing is keep it in the woods as much as possible and give it the opportunity to do what it was bred to do. If it doesn't have it in it it chances are it wopn't do it anyway. Good luck and happy hunitng.

id take this mans advice,well put

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Posted by jdw2920 on 01-10-2010 12:27 AM:

Pup is a male walker will be 5 months next Saturday he has been walked daily since old enough around buckets and let them explore around. I got the pup last sat but allowed him to stay with breeder because we worked it out where they would do this with him before I got him. We worked on loading today and if he was a tad taller he would jump in back of truck but just not tall enough yet. Went riding to set live trap and he acted like he winded something from off golf cart but next to road so afraid to let him take off just yet. I believe he will be good and hopefully start easy. May get a coon n try a roll cage or a hide and use a scent, but what is best scent?
Thanks guys for all the advice keep it coming

Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-10-2010 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by CSnowgren
Some good info on here. I don't use as much "sight work" as what is suggested so far. I want them working scent and not on sight. I rarely let them "tree" on cage coon. When they see a coon in a cage its because I am about to turn it loose for them to work. A pup/yearling getting excited over seeing a caged coon means zilcho to me unless it shows zero interest.....and even then that ain't too disppointing to me. I want the pup to hunt for a track, recognize the scent and work the scent to its end. I avoid most work that just adds another experience that the pup has to decipher in order to put it all together at the end. Hunt, track, and tree. KISS.

Disclaimer for the internet trainers: The most important aspect of training a pup is in the trainer's ability to have enough tools in his bag to bring out the best in a pup. From physical acts to mental solutions and the sense to know when and when not to use them.

This is the best post I have seen on this thing. I agree with every word. If you are going to let them work the cage release the coon and I would do it at night. If it finds the tree shot it out dead. Walk it in creek bottoms and any were you think you can get a hot track. It will give you a chance to trash break along the way. Don't put it in the woods with another dog that is fast or you don't know. It is to young to keep up with a fast dog and will just run behind bawling. A old slow dog might get it to start IF you know it is clean and NOT mean.
Better to just walk it though. More chance to trash break.
I had a dog given to me once that was about a year old. Took it to a caged coon a friend had and it wouldn't even look at it. It wouldn't leave my side while the other dog hunted or treed.
One night it cought a kitten coon on the ground and killed it by itself. From then on he improved every time I took him to the woods and became a VERRY good kill dog. Good luck with you pup. He is young so have patience on your walks and enjoy it becouse you will be running to a tree before long and the patience you have now will determin what is in the tree when you get there.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-10-2010 01:50 AM:

Something else you can do to give a pup that age that hasn't started on coon yet is. Have you wife or frien hole it on leash and you run off calling it's name. Lay a track you think it can work and just keep makeing them longer. You can even teach them to air by getting out of the truck and hideing in a field.
Have someone take the dog down wind and turn it loose. let it learn to work the wind and how to trail on you. Once it starts on coon quit doing it. You can give them a lot of tracking, trailing and air scenting experience that way before they ever know what a coon is. I start it on pups a lot younger than yours and quit when they start running coon.
Make sure the pup allways wins even if you have to help him or your helper has to help him. It will build confidence in his ability to follow his nose to what he is looking for.

Posted by anscox on 01-10-2010 02:18 AM:

When we were starting to train our first hounds, several breeders told us to use caged coon.
Had a problem with one male who we started that way just bawling at the CAGE, not necessarily the coon. Didn't figure this out until the empty cage was sitting there one day and the dog started bawling his head off! Took a while to get him back to hunting with his nose and not just on sight, but he did straighten out.

Well, stopped that! We let our pups start playing with hides at 4-6 weeks old. Then drags, and then take them out with an older dog. Have to have a pretty dependable older dog though or they will end up picking up the bad habits first. LOL. Seems that way anyway!

It's also important, once they learn the steps, to take them out alone. Otherwise you just end up with a follower and not a leader. A "me too" dog can win a hunt, but it's much nicer to know your dog did it on their own!

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Posted by JEFFHESTER on 01-10-2010 02:26 AM:

Pup

quote:
Originally posted by jdw2920
Pup is a male walker will be 5 months next Saturday he has been walked daily since old enough around buckets and let them explore around. I got the pup last sat but allowed him to stay with breeder because we worked it out where they would do this with him before I got him. We worked on loading today and if he was a tad taller he would jump in back of truck but just not tall enough yet. Went riding to set live trap and he acted like he winded something from off golf cart but next to road so afraid to let him take off just yet. I believe he will be good and hopefully start easy. May get a coon n try a roll cage or a hide and use a scent, but what is best scent?
Thanks guys for all the advice keep it coming

If you catch a coon you can put him a trash can or 50 gallon barrel and spray starter fluid(contains ether) in the barrel and then place a lid on it. This will knock the coon out and then you'll be able to collar him. Be careful on how much you spray just spray enough to knock him out. Put the collar on him as quick as possible and then let him breath fresh air. Once he's collared you'll be able to lay some good tracks for your pup and do what I said earlier only show him caged coon if your going to let him have it. You can bring a coon skin along to the collared coons tree and shoot your rifle and let him have the hide just make sure the hide doesn't get to worn.
Jeff

Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-10-2010 03:21 AM:

Re: Pup

quote:
Originally posted by JEFFHESTER
If you catch a coon you can put him a trash can or 50 gallon barrel and spray starter fluid(contains ether) in the barrel and then place a lid on it. This will knock the coon out and then you'll be able to collar him. Be careful on how much you spray just spray enough to knock him out. Put the collar on him as quick as possible and then let him breath fresh air. Once he's collared you'll be able to lay some good tracks for your pup and do what I said earlier only show him caged coon if your going to let him have it. You can bring a coon skin along to the collared coons tree and shoot your rifle and let him have the hide just make sure the hide doesn't get to worn.
Jeff

You can do all the above with the hide alone. So if you get one in a trap just put the trap in the head lights so the pup can see it. Take the pup to the cage and let it bawl a LITTLE. Then tie the pup to the bumper so it can see the coon leave the trap. Let the coon go and make sure the pup sees it run. Then let the pup go. It will keep it from stoping and barking at the trap. Then you might just have you a real race.
If it will run and tree one like that it will run a hot track. If you have gave it some experience tracking you then it should be able to find a hot coon.
Pay attention to weather the releasted into the wind, cross wind or with the wind. Be sure it is set up the way you want it.
If it is going into the wind your pup will air it. If it is going across the wind it will trail it and if it is going with the wind it will have to drift or track it. Need to think of that when you are laying a track for it to track you too. You can give it more winning experiences like this than it will get on wild coon in a lot of hunting.

Posted by jdw2920 on 01-11-2010 03:44 AM:

the hiding thing from the dogs I know that was done a little bit with him with the people I bought him from. I ama going to turn a coon out and let him try and run it hot like said. I believe I will take him to a coon pen tuesdday and see what he will do in there its a controled environment he cant get away or go to far way since its enclosed not sure there are a lot of coons in the pen but just be good for him to get out. He seems smart and pretty easy to work with since he will already nearly load if he was just a tad taller he would but at least will get paws on tailgate and let me pick him up and go in. I have a good feeling about him just want to get him some experience before warm weather dont fool with hunting in the warm weather dont want to fight the snakes and worry about getting dog bit and killed.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-11-2010 04:44 AM:

I run my dogs all year. We have parts around here were you don't have to worry about snakes. We are pretty lucky that way. I just the snakey places in the winter and the other places in the summer. We don't have a coon pen around here. That would be handy to use once or twice on a pup but I think I would like the trap and release better than a lot of hot tracks going every were. Good luck with your pup and let us know how it is doing some time.

Posted by jdw2920 on 01-11-2010 05:33 AM:

Wish we had places around here that wasnt snakey. I will let everyone know. I dont believe that there will be more than three coons in the pen. Thanks for all the help and info. I am still trying to find areas around here that I can hunt, its just hard to get people to let you.

Posted by coondawg_hunter on 01-11-2010 10:10 AM:

put the pup on a live cage coon,, let it see it, let it smell it, and by all means let it get excited by it, it will yelp, it will bark and will get loud, pet it up lots and encourage it, make it excited, leash it love it up lots and turn the coon loose, give it a head start and turn the pup loose, the pup will lose sight but the pup will have it in it's nose, pup should find it treed, if it loses it, then so be it, repreat the process, don't praise the pup for losing it, nor spank that pup either, praise it for being excited on it, repeat the process, when that pup tracks it and trees it, then praise it highly, kill the coon and let it wrestle with it for a few seconds and then pull the coon away, never let that pup get bored with it! repeat the process! i know that this sounds like alot of repeat the process!!!!!!!!!!! well yeah, dogs learn from repitition! over and over again till that dog knows what is what! hope this helps! ps: if ya only work them on live coon, then live coon is all they chase ever! hope this helps!

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