UKC Forums - Need help with a pup (tree jacking)

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Posted by GCH Viper on 07-21-2021 05:28 PM:

Need help with a pup (tree jacking)

I have a young dog starting to take off and he’s got me more excited than I’ve been in years.
This pup has just started and only treed two coons in the wild. My issue here is he’s wanting to jack the tree some. Not bad, but he is doing it. It’s in his blood to do it. Can anyone give any insight on helping this? I figured if I start now just as he’s starting to connect the dots there will be a better chance of correction than if I wait until he gets more coons under his belt. I’m hesitant because I don’t wanna affect his treeing.
I have read a lot of the old post. If you have something helpful and nice to say I would really welcome your input. Please don’t post and say give him a bullet. That’s not helping anyone. This pup has all the ear marks to make a coondog. I have owned jackers in the past but never started a pup from scratch that wanted to jack.
Thanks

Posted by chuck west on 07-21-2021 06:17 PM:

Tie him or her on the tree that they are on . Tie it up as high as you can reach . Makes him stand up on the tree with very little jacking .

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Posted by groworg1 on 07-21-2021 07:07 PM:

contact wild willy on here or wild willy's way on facebook

Posted by Dave Richards on 07-22-2021 03:06 AM:

Re: Need help with a pup (tree jacking)

quote:
Originally posted by GCH Viper
I have a young dog starting to take off and he’s got me more excited than I’ve been in years.
This pup has just started and only treed two coons in the wild. My issue here is he’s wanting to jack the tree some. Not bad, but he is doing it. It’s in his blood to do it. Can anyone give any insight on helping this? I figured if I start now just as he’s starting to connect the dots there will be a better chance of correction than if I wait until he gets more coons under his belt. I’m hesitant because I don’t wanna affect his treeing.
I have read a lot of the old post. If you have something helpful and nice to say I would really welcome your input. Please don’t post and say give him a bullet. That’s not helping anyone. This pup has all the ear marks to make a coondog. I have owned jackers in the past but never started a pup from scratch that wanted to jack.
Thanks

Thank you for knowing this is a fault and wanting to correct this problem. Correcting it before it becomes a habit or leads to problems is the right way to go. Dave

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Posted by Triple K Kennel on 07-22-2021 11:53 AM:

Jacking a Tree....

I have broke several doing this and have found only one method to work.
Tie your leadstrap low to the ground but just enough room for him to be able to stand up on the tree but not quite all the way and after you break him he will learn to stretchout more on the tree.....But DO NOT give him any extra. If there is nothing to tie to....then wrap lead around your hand and stand right next to him. It will take a few times but he will get it right.
If you tie the strap high he will have room to jump as high as he wants to.
While hunting with a Buddy and his Tree Jacker one night, I had his Dog broke in that one night of hunting.
The key is not giving him any slack in Strap to allow him to Jump. One other thing.....DO NOT HANG ANY DEAD COONS UP FOR HIM.
Feel free to Call or Text me and I can explain it a little better.
Tim.....765-244-7028

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Posted by Lance Laymon on 07-22-2021 01:58 PM:

wild willy has a good method that works

Posted by River Birch Run on 07-23-2021 12:26 PM:

I tie them down as well. Biggest thing when they are young, do not pet them up at the tree. Lead them away before you praise them.

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Posted by yadkinriver on 07-23-2021 04:29 PM:

Just follow Triple K's advice. Don't know how it could be explained much better.

Posted by Justin Lawson on 07-26-2021 02:45 AM:

Put a lock on his collar you want it to be a long lock not the short. He can wear it in the pen and the woods. You might back your collar off a little so he could slip the collar if the lock was ever hung on something but I've never had that problem so far.

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Posted by Black Ash Bawl on 07-26-2021 07:28 AM:

Wick says.

Treeing style is heredity, very hard to change and keep it from reverting back.

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Posted by wildwilly0161 on 07-27-2021 09:26 AM:

Viper

"Please don't post and say give him a bullet" Your words have great meaning to me, as that was the first advice I got,,, when I asked
about this subject years ago for Brussel.

Thank You, It's a crying shame that people have to add stuff like this when asking for good sound advice. I couldn't believe some of the advice on here when I started Coon Hunting years ago. Instantly I realized this advice does nothing to help our sport, as I read the spectrum of advice for my young Hound I realized another thing,,, No One Really Knows or worse they keep it secret while so many Hounds get culled for it. So I decided to study it and find out by inventing a Real Cure that Get the results that save Coon Dogs. It took me a while to realize that many Houndsman have many different abusive ways, to attempt to break some. So I tried as many as I could and I can say for sure is the ones I tied sucked, only making the problem worse and more confusing to me and my Hound. Truth be, Good people, give good advice and it'll make common sense, if it does I'll try it, if it doesn't, I don't try it because my Dog won't understand it anyway. Just like the Good (Strech the Tree but not allow to jump) muscle memory implanting advice given above!!

#1 the tie a lock or brick to the collar method achieves less than mediocre results and can hurt your pup badly. This method as well as Many other disciplinary (scolding only) methods only work on less than half of all Tree Hounds, because The tree Hound is already in adrenaline mode and all Hard going and or Alpha/ Independent Hounds only see the physical discipline as an obstacle they must endure to stay Treed SO instead of Breaking Tree Jacking, It Actually Makes it Worse In most Dogs.. Always remember when you try something, If it works You will see progress in the beginning through to the end,,, If you do not, Your Hound/Dog does not understand and that just wastes everybody time.

There are exceptions to every rule when it comes to Dogs, so there has never been one way to break them all, However, I have a unique ability when it comes to understanding and communicating with all Dogs, so I invented one universal system that works the same but changes slightly for each individual Dog! as well as the ability to see if it is genetically or environmentally caused while breaking it, so I can make wiser breeding decisions.

First I had to understand why, Second came Pulling up, the cure that Saved my and hundreds of other good Deserving Tree Hounds Lives.

Jacking the Tree can be a learned behavior ( it is not a genetically caused trait in all cases)

This page from my book should do the trick, if not message me and we can add a few more steps to ensure the result.

Pulling Up 101 ,
Overview
I do not believe in breeding Hounds that are genetically disposition to Jack and Run the Tree. I consider these severely bad faults. As these habits can ruin other clean Hounds by the tree jacker causing fights when falling on the other treeing Hounds. If this happens, breaking out in a fight (sometimes in a single occasion) it can cause a normally clean tree Hound to become extremely defensive. In some cases even resulting in the normally clean Hound face barking or blowing at other treeing Hounds (as a warning to not encroach his or her space). If left unchecked this normally non genetically aggressive Hounds aggression can even worsen ruining the Hounds life. However, as I take tree jacking as serious as the next coon hunter, I have seen so many examples of non-genetic tree jacking form right in front of my own eyes. The main causes that I have seen are, the coon being too low in the tree or if worked on a scented cage too much causing the Hound to jump repeatedly in an attempt to get the cage. Either way, this causes muscle memory to Set In the Hound, Quicky! So I created a way to rehabilitate non-genetic offenders and test older Hounds to see if the cause is genetic. The easier it is to break, the less of a genetic fault the Hound has. Hounds genetically predispositioned to jack the tree will quickly show themselves with this training. Then the degree of this fault that could pass down to its future offspring can be measured more precisely and wiser breeding decisions can be made.

Set Up
Controlling my training environment is the key to successful training in most cases. I have designed as much training as possible to take place in the woods when opportunities present themselves. However, sometimes the beginning of the training needs to take place in a completely controlled environment, like my backyard. So my Hound can understand what I want out of him or her. Also, it is very important not to allow any more unwanted muscle memory to form by them performing the undesired behavior before I can get to their tree. Breaking serious Tree Jacking needs to be done in a controlled environment before I can stretch it out to long range.
I control my training environment by allowing my Hound to track and Tree on a previously set up scented cage. Making sure to hang the cage high in the tree so I may raise and or lower it greatly.

Step 1:
Pulling Up Explained
Over the years I have attempted many different ways to break my buddies Hounds from Tree Jacking with very little success. Little did I know the true cure was simpler than I would have ever imagined. Yes Pulling them up higher than they would normally go is reverse psychology which works amazingly well with Hounds!! But this correction even dwells deeper within. Dogs are grounded to the Earth with the very little hairs we love to tickle! These hairs that lay between the pads of their paws connect them to our Earth in a way I can only imagine. But what I have noticed is, when Dogs leave the ground, not by their own power they experience an uncomfortable feeling such as a fish does out of water. I believe this is caused by the disconnection of their grounding hairs. So using a natural uncomfortable feeling, coupled with reverse phycology and a new form of communication allows me to rehabilitate muscle memory caused Jacking.
Step #4; Pulling UP!!
In my controlled environment, I allow my Hound to tree while lowering the scented cage just low enough to induce the Hound to jack the tree. Standing beside the Hound I allow them to jack the tree, on their upward jump I use their momentum by pulling them up with the leash. I pull them up slightly higher than they expect to go, (capitalizing on a very uncomfortable feeling), at that moment I add verbal discipline by saying my ultimate no Aght !! Aght !!! that I have previously trained my Hound in Pre Training. Every time he or she jumps I repeat this superman feeling by pulling them up higher than they expect to go and repeat my ultimate no Aght !! Aght !!! After a brief session of this my Hound will start treeing longer without jacking the tree. In this moment I give them verbal praise for treeing clean. Repeating the process by inducing or allowing the Hound to jack then pulling them up higher, while at the same time giving a corrective verbal command of Aght !! Aght !!! As soon as my hound Trees without Jacking I reward with Verbal and Physical praise as this Is the healing side of the training !!! I heal by Ending Each Session with my hound doing what I want and Praising them for it !!!!!! This training is done when I can have the scented cage hanging one foot lower down the tree, than what induced the jacking in the first place. While at the same time I can praise them enough to raise their adrenaline yet not causing them to jack the tree.
!!wildwilly!!

ps. Bullet Cures are not Needed anymore, please know 2 cent advice does not Grow Our Sport, Results do.

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Posted by GCH Viper on 07-28-2021 09:19 PM:

Thanks for all the response.

Posted by wildwilly0161 on 08-30-2021 08:42 PM:

how is your progress

How is it going with your young male? If he's not already broke and you need any other advice to finish completely breaking him PM me here or you can message me on wildwilly'sway.com and I'll give you any info, you need to get him right!!!

Posted by wildwilly0161 on 08-30-2021 08:42 PM:

how is your progress

Posted by GCH Viper on 08-30-2021 11:14 PM:

Thanks a lot for the info and reaching back out. When I made that post he had only treed two coons at the time. I have been staying on his heels as I would with any green pup. As soon as he treed I would handle him tight and sometimes let him tree a while like that. Then I would give him some slack and let him get his front feet on the tree. When doing that if he offered to jack I would pull him back pretty firmly and say “no”. Doing this combination consistently has seemed to work. He has treed around 15 now and the last 7 or 8 he has shown little to no interest in jacking.
He was never jacking bad but I wanted to nip it in the bud early on.
I think he’s always gonna be a dog that likes to circle the tree and bounce a little but I can handle that.
I’ll have to admit I was worried. He is turning into a really nice young dog and I did wanna have the jacking to deal with.

Posted by Triple K Kennel on 08-31-2021 03:13 AM:

Tree Jacking

quote:
Originally posted by GCH Viper
Thanks a lot for the info and reaching back out. When I made that post he had only treed two coons at the time. I have been staying on his heels as I would with any green pup. As soon as he treed I would handle him tight and sometimes let him tree a while like that. Then I would give him some slack and let him get his front feet on the tree. When doing that if he offered to jack I would pull him back pretty firmly and say “no”. Doing this combination consistently has seemed to work. He has treed around 15 now and the last 7 or 8 he has shown little to no interest in jacking.
He was never jacking bad but I wanted to nip it in the bud early on.
I think he’s always gonna be a dog that likes to circle the tree and bounce a little but I can handle that.
I’ll have to admit I was worried. He is turning into a really nice young dog and I did wanna have the jacking to deal with.

Glad to hear he is coming along for you.
I would stay away from the dead hang up or Caged Coon if he is treeing on his own.
Keep him in the Woods & Good Luck.
Keep us Updated too.
Tim

Posted by GCH Viper on 08-31-2021 03:46 AM:

Re: Tree Jacking

quote:
Originally posted by Triple K Kennel
Glad to hear he is coming along for you.
I would stay away from the dead hang up or Caged Coon if he is treeing on his own.
Keep him in the Woods & Good Luck.
Keep us Updated too.
Tim

Yes sir he’s definitely past the hang up & caged Coon stage. I started this pup one on one all by his lonesome and he’s doing it all by his lonesome.
He will punch a hole in the dark and get under the fur.
I’m proud as a peacock. I made this semen cross after being out a good long while. I carefully found the right female and it’s been a long wait to get to this point. He’s got some big shoes to fill but he’s making it easy to get off the couch right now.
I sincerely thank everyone again for the input.

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