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treeing advice

Well, i'm fairly new to coonhunting, have been running beagles for years, but just got my first coonhound of my own. I got a walker female 2 months ago, she just turned 2 years old in May. I got her from a guy who said she will track well, but hasn't started treeing real well yet. I took a chance and picked her up. Anyway, i've taken her out probably 20 times since I got her, I like the way she hunts, medium range and checks back in. She does seem to track real well, she'll run a coon and stick with it, but once it trees, she sort of just bawls around the area and never really changes over and trees it. After a while of this, maybe 15-20 mins of just back and forth around the area that I think a coon went up a tree and never treeing, she'll go off again and look for another track to run. I recently took her out with a caged coon 2 different times and let her track it and tree, she trees beautifully, I let her tree for about 10 minutes and then hook her up. I let her do this 3 times each night on 2 different nights. Each time she would stay and change over to a chop and stay right on the tree. I thought maybe she'd get the idea, so I started running her again, but again, she'll find a track and run it, but it's like she can't figure out it went up a tree or something, she won't tree, the track is gone and I can tell the coon went up a tree, but I haven't been able to find one and she won't tree, just wanders around the area bawling. Does anybody have any suggestions on what I could try, i don't know many other coonhunters to run with. Do you think at this age it's something she'll be able to figure out or do you think I should move on to another hound? Thanks for any advice you guys can give me.

2ways a dog can tree by sight or nose dogs can see in the dark.
turn the coon out of 1 truck bring the dog in another.use another
dog if need.with mullberries and differnt things fixing to come on
the easy coons it shouldnt take long.

Ok, thanks for the ideas. The second time i used a cage coon, at the end of the night I turned the coon loose with hound tied back, coon only went 20 yards and up a tree, she watched and I cut her loose as it was going up the tree, she ran over and treed hard and I let her tree 10 minutes. I'm enjoying hunting her but of course would like her to start treeing, i don't mind putting more time in letting her hunt, I just haven't coonhunted enough to know if this is something that will take time or if at her age she should have figured out treeing already. Also, I don't know how much she has been hunted in the in her life, i'm thinking she spent a lot of time on the chain.

"i'm thinking she spent a lot of time on the chain."

And I'm thinking maybe she didn't...I'm thinking maybe this dog had her chance and no matter what the reason {dog, breeder or trainer} didn't make it. I don't know what you paid for this dog but since you are new to this sport here is a few words to think about:

Good dogs are few and far between and they are for certain not cheap. A low priced or giveaway is almost always one that was tried and didn't make it so the previous owner is just getting rid of it. The easiest way to do that is low priced or free along with those words we've all heard before..."I don't have time" or "all she needs is hunted" "just a few more coons" or my favorite..."all ya gotta do is put him in the woods." The low price coupled with a good believable excuse makes for getting rid of the dog. After that it's someone elses problem.
I can hardly believe that this dog spent two years on a chain not learning anything then you get it and now all of a sudden as if by magic it automatically guessed how to hunt out, find the correct track and run the track all the way to the tree. My guess is that this dog is just not interested in treeing and truth know this is the reason you were able to get the dog. If this is the case the best thing you could do to the previous owner is take the dog back and say here you go...I aint got time to hunt him either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Thanks toecutter, you have many good points in your posts as well. They say there's no vice like advice, but the best advice I can give anyone getting started up this trail is to buy a copy of "Walk With Wick, the Tree Dog Encyclopedia." Read it cover to cover twice.

I ain't a bettin' man, but I'll bet a fresh Ben Franklin right now that Mr. Wick don't have a clue just how many folks he helped in this sport with his book. I'm 52, been coon huntin' since I was 16 and I still get out that book and read it.

Ok, thanks guys for the advice. The hound may be no good and i might have been suckered by the guy I bought her from. I got her fairly reasonably, but the guy was honest in telling me that she was a good track dog, but needed work on the tree, but that she had treed for him before. I'm reading "Walk with Wick" for the 3rd time right now and after I get some more cash I'm going to get the 2nd volume. I've had some beagles that have started early and some that are a lot later. Some haven't even started till 12-15 months, but have turned out great, some that have started early never were that good. In the walk with wick book, I know he's big on genetics which I am also with my beagles, so i guess my question is when to give up on a coonhound. Like I said, i've had some beagles that started late and didn't really finish till 3-4 years, but after they did, they really turned it on, some guys would have dumped that dog at a year old and missed out. I got into this sport for many reason, but really just for fun, so i really don't want to give up on this hound yet, but also want to have some coons treed. In the wick book he sorta sounds like at this age of 2 and what she's doing, he would probably give up, so do you think there is any hope. There are lots of aspects of the hound I like, but is it useless to keep hunting her, I don't mind at all putting time into letting her learn, I just enjoy running dogs, but do any of you think she'll ever learn to tree or is it hopeless. Especially if there's not a lot to do to help them learn. I think I'll just keep hunting her for a while and hope the light switch turns on. i really appreciate all of you giving me advice, I'm learning all this trial and error, so anything helps and anymore thoughts would be appreciated.

I have to say that it's very commendable that you want to make certain you give this little dog the best possible chance. One of the worst mistakes I have made was probably cutting them off too soon. That's bad, because it eats at you later for years. Especially when you realize or learn yourself a better way to do something. I still look back twenty years ago and think about "what I shoulda done."
That said, here is what I would suggest you try and here's my reason for trying it. Get a live coon in a rolling cage and set it out by the dogs kennel. Walk away and let the dog watch the coon roll the cage around right outside her kennel or just out of reach of where she is tied. Usually this will really fire them up...there's something about a live wild coon right near where the dog lives. The dog wont like it that much more because that is where the dog belongs and to her the coon don't. I am guessing she will start to bark and give that coon hell.
Let her see you drag it over to a tree and haul it up just out of reach then turn her loose. If she ignores it put the coon and her away and try again another time.

If this don't fire her up and get her to stand on the tree and bark I would try something I just recently heard about. Put a coon in a fish landing net and you can walk it around with the end of the net pole. You can let the coon go up a tree but stop him and she will be smelling foot scent on the ground and the tree. I haven't tried this myself yet, just did hear about it but it sounds like it might be worth a try.

All that said I will tell you this too...ever wonder why the same bunch of guys always have the best dogs??? They repeatedly place high in the big hunts and everyone wants a puppy from them. It aint magic...they just wont settle for less than a perfect dog and they wont spend too much time with one that don't have what it takes.

Toe cutter always has good advice. TC I would ask that you please consider writing an E book on hounds and training. I would be more then happy to buy a copy. Also would be more then happy to help get it published for you. I believe the costs are minimal compared to publishing a paper back. I have never been involved in writing one, but have friends that have for other hobbies. I have learned more from your post then any other person I have met in person.

Ridge runner, my guess would be that she hasn't had the time in the woods she deserved. Most dogs will tree coon but have one or 2 glaring faults, that can't be changed. Doesn't mean that wont be nice coon dogs, just means they wont be the complete package. Keep her in the woods with thick coon, and be patient. Once these kittens get down, you will start having much better luck. It has been very poor hunting around here lately and will be most likely until the corn comes in and the kittens get down.

In another words, a lot of finished dogs, are looking pretty poor many of nights this time of year in our neck of the woods.

Feel free to pm, I know some good guys out your way.

msinc, the hound goes crazy over a caged coon. I've drug the cage to where she can't see it and threw a rope over a branch and drug it up, anywhere from 10 to 15 feet, as high as I could get it and drug it up the tree, she will find it and go nuts treeing, changes over to chop and never quits for as long as I let her, I keep it to 10 minutes like it says in the wick book. Now of course the hound can see the cage and coon, so that doesn't help with scenting it up the tree, maybe drag the cage and try to get the coon loose to go up that tree so the scent is left behind. Is the idea of having the coon near the kennel just to get her fired up? Because she goes nuts over the caged one and bites and tears into the cage when it's on the ground?
Fisher13, thanks for the encouragement, I'm gonna give her some more time to make sure. I'm sure she has some other faults but do like the way she hunts, she's walked right by several deer and isn't interested, so that's a plus, she has caught a few possum on the ground, but that really doesn't bother me, mostly at this point interested in pleasure hunting her and learning the ropes, so some faults I can live with right now.

If she's that crazy about a coon in a cage, will tree it like you are describing and appears to be doing everything else right I have to wonder if it's a coon she's running to begin with when you think she's leaving the tree. Do you have gray fox where you live??? They will tap trees when they are chased and they will climb too. When you say she walked right by a deer is that when you were right there with her??? Dogs can get real smart about running off game when they really want to. If they would always blast a deer right out of hearing every time we would not have any trouble figuring out what they are doing but that's often not the case. Many dogs will not touch a deer if you are near to see what's up, just like many wont open on a deer when wearing a shock collar either. I have had dogs figure out how far they need out go to be out of range before it is safe to go ahead and open and run it the way they want to.
Just to illustrate how strange things can get with a dog I will tell you that I have seen many times where a dog that is broke and runs and trees coon no problem at all for some reason can not run and tree a caged coon dumped out in front of them. I don't know what it is but many good broke coon dogs cannot tree a caged coon when turned loose. They will try but loose it every time. It is strange to me and I don't know why...now you have a dog that does everything right with a caged coon but wont tree.
I think my next move with her would be to turn her loose on a known confirmed coon seen at a feeder. I have a feeder set up in my back yard I can see from the house. I use it to get a pup going and for checking what dogs like yours are doing. I don't know if you could set something like this up at your house or have another place you could do it but it might be worth a try.
She ain't by chance gun shy is she??? Seen them act like this when they are gun shy too.

I do have grey fox where I live and red fox. This is a possibility. Say she was running a grey fox and it tapped a tree and kept going, do you think she might act that way, meander around where it tapped the tree and then not pick up the trail again? As far as deer go, I can say she has not ran one yet..although I probably just screwed myself by saying that, i've had beagles run them and are pretty familiar with that chase, i can only assume it would be the same with a coonhound. I was not alway with her when deer were around her, a few I was, 2 times though i had cut her loose and she ran a track and ran it for around 45 minutes, then she started her "treeing" where she was staying in one place, but not on any particular tree, just wandering a circle bawling. Anyway, I had been trying to stay close behind her and when I go to within 50 yards or so, between me and her were 2 deer, one standing one lying down, probably 30 yards from her, just watching the dog. I stood there 5 minutes and watch to see what might happen, the dog just wandered in a circle and the deer stood there, when i finally went to her, the deer took off, the dog looked at them and then went back to bawling around. Another time, when i followed fairly close, she was running a track and 2 other deer ran right by me that she kicked out, she would have had to smell them or see them but they went one way she went the other. Not saying it can't or won't happen, but she hasn't run deer yet. Fox is a good possibility though. I had a feeder out but a bear kept tearing it apart, I will put one out though again in a different spot and try to set her up on a hot coon or maybe drive around and see if one crosses the road and put her on that right away, just to see if she can tree it.

I guess i'm not sure if she is gun shy, never shot around her...I'm gonna go out back right now and see.

No, does not seem to be gun shy.

Well, dogs will do some strange things. Trying to figure it out is one of the jobs as a trainer we must always do. If she was banging on a track and deer were right there and she didn't show any interest in them especially when they ran away I would say she don't care about deer.
My next question would be when she runs a track and bogs down like you say does she always bang around that area until you get there and in doing that have you looked up in the trees in the area and found a coon???
Many young {or in this case inexperienced} dogs will run a coon track and when the coon goes up the dog will get to that area and stop giving mouth. The track they were having so much fun with just ended and the dog doesn't understand why or what happened to it. They shut up and try to figure out what happened. They will typically go back and try to find and give some mouth on the track where it ended. This is where I am not so sure what's going on because she has treed and she knows they go up but outwardly she is acting like a young confused pup.
If this is the case I would think that at one of these bog down places there would be a coon setting up a tree. No coon ever would make me consider something else. Does this always happen in the same hunting area/farm???

Patience patience, patience, if she is running track she will be fine, just keep her in the woods. Ride her butt like TC said, and hope to find the coon. The only other thing you can do is turn a cage coon loose and Chase the coon up a tree wait ten or so mintues and turn her loose. That way you know right where the track ended. Try hunting her with a good broke dog maybe 50 percent of the time. She will figure it out in her own time and you will drive your self crazy thinking of all the different possibilitys.
Patience and lots of woods times, will do more good then anything we can do as a trainer.

I have not shot any down to her yet, whenever she bogs down in an area, I search as much as possible to look for a coon, but the leaves are heavy enough it makes them pretty tough to find, I'm convinced that when she does that, that a coon went up a tree, but when i get there she is wandering around and so without being able to find the tree, i can't put her back on any one tree because i'm not sure if the coon is there. I don't want to guess and put her on a tree if i'm not sure a coon is up there. I'm gonna try to run her this week and stay right on her butt, when she bogs down I want to see what she is doing and hopefully i can pick out which tree it went up.

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Originally posted by paridgerunner
Ok, thanks for the ideas. The second time i used a cage coon, at the end of the night I turned the coon loose with hound tied back, coon only went 20 yards and up a tree, she watched and I cut her loose as it was going up the tree, she ran over and treed hard and I let her tree 10 minutes. I'm enjoying hunting her but of course would like her to start treeing, i don't mind putting more time in letting her hunt, I just haven't coonhunted enough to know if this is something that will take time or if at her age she should have figured out treeing already. Also, I don't know how much she has been hunted in the in her life, i'm thinking she spent a lot of time on the chain.

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