UKC Forums - Rule ?

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Posted by Mark V. on 02-18-2023 08:01 PM:

Rule ?

I don't get on here much so I am sure this has been discussed before Does a handle have the option to hold his dog while running the 6 min. and if not is this a scratch able offence for not turning loose?
3 dog cast Dog A stuck for 100 dog B for 75 Dog C for 50 dog B & C treed after scoring tree dog A is treed at 700 yards Dog B takes option to walk dog C cuts does dog B block dog C from striking for 75 because he chose to stay on the lead?
THANK YOU would like Rule Numbers please

Posted by jawscardodger on 02-18-2023 09:34 PM:

No. 11 D

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Posted by RCogburn on 02-19-2023 03:12 PM:

11D rules states; once a position has been scored it becomes available again. So the only position not scored in your scenario is 1st strike. So yes next dog that strikes is scored at 75

Posted by Sonny Phipps on 02-19-2023 03:38 PM:

It also says “ the strike position previously held by dog(s) on leash is not available until dog is recast.”

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Posted by jkidd1 on 02-19-2023 09:51 PM:

Mark, I’m not sure I understand the first part of your question about, having the option to hold onto you dog while running the “6”. Even though UKC has the no leash lock rule, dog(s) in the cast are struck or treed in, after pulling your dog off a scored treed, you must wait for one of those dogs to open to be recast. How- ever, if no dogs are struck or treed in, your hound will be imme- diately eligible for recasting upon pulling it off the scored tree. So if the “6” is running dog(s) will have to stay on the leash until the “6” catches the dog(s) it was applied to or they break it, then dog(s) leashed can be recast. At that point, the dog(s) on the leash must be recast. If any or all dogs on the cast are declared treed, the handler has the option to recast the hound or keep it on the leash until the next opportunity pres- ents itself. The definition of next opportunity would be when the next dog is scored, whether you have arrived and scored the tree, or the dog were to leave the tree before the cast arriving.

The strike isn’t considered back open and scored until the dog(s) on leash are recast and competing for those strike points. The handler who chose to keep his dog on the leash isn’t competing for those strike points since he chose to keep his dog on the leash. So in this case, yes dog C would strike back in for 75.

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Posted by Matt Stokes on 02-20-2023 04:45 AM:

Mark

If you are still hunting Blue dogs, there is a special rule book for them. (you can buy it on Amazon). LOL , just kidding I saw your post and just wanted to say hi, I hope your doing well.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 02-20-2023 03:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
Mark, I’m not sure I understand the first part of your question about, having the option to hold onto you dog while running the “6”. Even though UKC has the no leash lock rule, dog(s) in the cast are struck or treed in, after pulling your dog off a scored treed, you must wait for one of those dogs to open to be recast. How- ever, if no dogs are struck or treed in, your hound will be imme- diately eligible for recasting upon pulling it off the scored tree. So if the “6” is running dog(s) will have to stay on the leash until the “6” catches the dog(s) it was applied to or they break it, then dog(s) leashed can be recast. At that point, the dog(s) on the leash must be recast. If any or all dogs on the cast are declared treed, the handler has the option to recast the hound or keep it on the leash until the next opportunity pres- ents itself. The definition of next opportunity would be when the next dog is scored, whether you have arrived and scored the tree, or the dog were to leave the tree before the cast arriving.

The strike isn’t considered back open and scored until the dog(s) on leash are recast and competing for those strike points. The handler who chose to keep his dog on the leash isn’t competing for those strike points since he chose to keep his dog on the leash. So in this case, yes dog C would strike back in for 75.

Jeremy, your remarks would have been spot on before the most recent rule change. The change no longer requires scored dogs to be held on leash until a struck dog opens. Now, you recast dogs without having to wait on a struck dog to open.

To answer Van Deventer, holding on to a dog during the six is not a handler option.

Posted by jkidd1 on 02-20-2023 05:39 PM:

Ok Allen, I stand corrected and haven’t hunted in a UKC hunt since the most recent rule changes. So if I understand this correctly, we pull dog(s) off a tree and start the 6 on dogs that were struck in but are now not heard opening, we cut loose while this 6 is running? Thanks

Posted by jkidd1 on 02-20-2023 05:58 PM:

I found it in the coonhound advisor, Sorry for any confusion I may have caused by quoting the old rule, this one slipped by me. Here’s a piece on it that should help clear it up for me and others:

Removing the Stipulation of Hearing a Dog Open Before Recasting
In the 2020 rule change, all but one scenario where a dog was leash locked unwillingly was removed from the rulebook. With the 2023 rule change, that last situation is being removed and there will no longer be a period of time where a dog is leash locked, without the handler agreeing
to do so. The rule that is being removed, is the stipulation in Rule 11(d) that read, after being scored, dog shall not be released until another dog struck in on track, or on tree, opens. In the 2023 verison of the Official Coonhound Rulebook, Rule 11(d) will read, after being scored, dog(s) may be released immediately or led a reasonable distance (judges’ decision) from scored tree before recasting. No need to run the 2-minute or 6-minute clocks on declared struck or treed dogs before recasting, just cut your hound loose (at the judge’s discretion of course).

Handlers will still retain the option to keep their scored hound on the leash if any other dog in the cast is declared treed. That is clarified in the 2nd and 3rd sentences of Rule 11(d) by saying, However, if another dog in cast is declared treed, handler(s) has the option to recast or keep scored dog on leash. Handlers opting to keep dog on leash may not recast dog until next opportunity arises (next tree is scored or dog leaves tree).
Same as it has always been, upon releasing the scored hound, it will be important to head to the last spot you heard other hounds in the cast that were declared struck or treed to run appropriate times. In the case of the recently released dog opening up and being struck, the judge needs to make it a priority to split the difference the best way possible to accurately judge all dogs in the cast that are declared struck.

Posted by jawscardodger on 02-21-2023 07:59 PM:

Should print this and bring it with you. I knew about the new rule.But didn't know there wasn't and option to keep the dog on the leash and run the six.

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Posted by Mark V. on 02-22-2023 02:51 AM:

don't feel bad the guys at that club didn't either

Posted by Mark V. on 02-22-2023 02:51 AM:

don't feel bad the guys at that club didn't either

Posted by Mark V. on 02-22-2023 02:53 AM:

good hearing from you i thought of you and Banjo about 2am sat when i was going threw nakomas

Posted by Justin jayroe on 02-23-2023 03:27 AM:

Seems kinda crazy to not hold dogs why a six is running why would u want to turn loose an break the six for another dog by striking back in

Posted by jawscardodger on 02-23-2023 07:08 PM:

This new rule is going to spread the dogs out even more

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Posted by Mark V. on 02-23-2023 08:59 PM:

my dog can't tree coon on the lead I want my dog off the lead.and the other dogs can't make mistakes on the lead $kc need to learn this i don't pay $35 to walk my dog threw the woods

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