UKC Forums - Question: Hunt Scenario

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Posted by jabrown on 04-10-2012 04:08 PM:

Question: Hunt Scenario

All dogs are struck in and working track. One of the dogs comes in to cast and handler snaps the lead on him. As the judge, what penalty are you required to administer in this situation, and what rule would you reference if questioned by said handler?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-10-2012 04:09 PM:

Dog is scratched. Plain and simple.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 05:05 PM:

I know it would be minused for comeing in and if it is there for 15 minutes it is scratched but I can't find anything that covers a person leashing one up.

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Posted by jabrown on 04-10-2012 05:21 PM:

Look at rule 4(e). The reason that I ask about this is because of where you find the rule to cover this situation. It's in the minus section. Just wondering if that could cause any confusion for anyone.

__________________
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15

Josh Brown
The Barber Shop
Cuba, MO
573-205-1391

Posted by jabrown on 04-10-2012 05:30 PM:

This happened to a friend of mine who is an inexperienced handler. He learned the hard way. I was just looking through the rule book for the rule to back the scratch and was surprised where I found it. That's one reason why I ask. The other reason is because it's REALLY slow at The Barber Shop today, and I'm REALLY bored! Anybody need a haircut? I'll give you the coonhunters special!

__________________
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15

Josh Brown
The Barber Shop
Cuba, MO
573-205-1391

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 05:37 PM:

4. E. Dog quits track and comes in.

I would think there would be something about a handler handleing his dog before the judge tells him to but can't find a thing.

Posted by JiM on 04-10-2012 05:43 PM:

If you read all of 4(e), it states dogs are not to be tied or encouraged to go back. Then the Advisor explains the implied scratch which says anytime you do something the rules specifically prohibit, you are scratched. That is why he would be scratched for handling his dog in that situation.

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Posted by jabrown on 04-10-2012 06:21 PM:

Oops, I meant 4(e). Fixed it. I've always understood it as an implied scratch, I guess most folks know that it's a scratchable offense, if not you learn the hard way like my pal. I'm just glad I wasn't judging.

__________________
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15

Josh Brown
The Barber Shop
Cuba, MO
573-205-1391

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 08:10 PM:

If it is not in the rule book it shouldn't be implied.

Posted by JiM on 04-10-2012 10:01 PM:

It IS in the rule book Okie. Read the last sentence of rule 4(e). Go look it up. Read that last sentence and then write it on this board 20 times before you post anything else again.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-10-2012 10:35 PM:

Thanks Jim. I knew it had to be there some were. Just couldn't find anything on it. I think it should be listed under the scratch rules though.

Posted by BB&LKennels on 04-11-2012 12:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jabrown
Oops, I meant 4(e). Fixed it. I've always understood it as an implied scratch, I guess most folks know that it's a scratchable offense, if not you learn the hard way like my pal. I'm just glad I wasn't judging.

WHY WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO HAVE BEEN THE JUDGE ? I GUESS YOU WOULDN'T HAVE SCRATCHED YOUR BUDDY'S DOG.LOL NO THAT WOULDN'T BE A GOOD SPOT TO BE IN BUT RULE'S ARE RULE'S,AND KNOW YOU WOULD HAVE MADE THE RIGHT CALL. WOULD SUCK THOUGH.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-11-2012 12:46 AM:

The tough part would be not being able to find it in the scratchable offences to show it to your friend.

Posted by JiM on 04-11-2012 12:56 AM:

Grady, if the rulebook says you can't do something and a handler does it anyway, what do you, as the judge of the cast, do?
4(e) explaining the rule on dogs that quit and come in...."He is not to be tied or encouraged to go back." Now that is a direct quote from the rule.
So you are the judge. A dog quits and comes into the cast. The handler grabs the dog and leashes him. As the judge, what do you do? Give him a stern warning? Tell him he shouldn't have done that? Send him home with a note to his mother? Scratch him for doing exactly what the rule says he can't do? Make the call.

The rule book is never going to use up the miles of paper necessary to write a specific scratch rule for every offense. It simple says, by way of the implied scratch, that if you do what the rules say you can't do......or you DON'T do what the rules say you must do, do are scratched.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-11-2012 03:06 PM:

Yea Jim you are right. Hadn't ever thought of it that way. With all the rules they have and the adviser to tell you what they mean this is the only thing I ever found you couldn't drag out one of them and show them in wrighting the rule that says not to do it and the punishment for it.
Your right though and I would gladly deal with more stuff like this with common since if they would simplyfy the rules.
I think communication has caused this. Use to you made a call and it was over at the end of the night. They didn't compair notes on this thing. I learn a lot out of the arguments on this thing though.
Thanks again Jim

Posted by jabrown on 04-11-2012 03:28 PM:

My whole point of this thread wasn't that the rule is hard to find or that it's not clearly written, or that I thought the dog shouldn't be scratched. He was justly scratched. My point is that it is written under the minus section.

Why don't we minus or delete a dogs strike points for coming in to a slick tree after the judge arrives? Because its found in the section that says CIRCLE POINTS:

No biggie. Just sayin

__________________
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15

Josh Brown
The Barber Shop
Cuba, MO
573-205-1391

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