UKC Forums - John Wick recast article(GOOD)

Show all 16 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- John Wick recast article(GOOD) (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=390007)

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 06:46 PM:

John Wick recast article(GOOD)

There is a good article on recasting your dog and how to get it to do it by John Wick on pages 12-15 of the American Cooner Mag.
Not trying to promote for them but for some one that hasn't got much experience with a e collar it is real informative. It will keep you from wasteing time going back to get your dog while the rest are hunting (even if the rest go back to the same tree).

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Posted by JiM on 12-01-2010 07:44 PM:

I read it yesterday. Not my way of handling that one. To me, that is not one of the situations where I want to use my e-collar. For that lesson I prefer a switch. I want my dog to know exactly where that lesson is coming from....me.
I have also had better luck NOT walking my pups away from the tree to recast. I prefer to send them right off the tree. If I shoot the coon out, I step them away from the coon and send them with coon laying right there.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 12-01-2010 08:12 PM:

"Good Boy" Find me another Coon .. Usualy works for Me

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 08:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I read it yesterday. Not my way of handling that one. To me, that is not one of the situations where I want to use my e-collar. For that lesson I prefer a switch. I want my dog to know exactly where that lesson is coming from....me.
I have also had better luck NOT walking my pups away from the tree to recast. I prefer to send them right off the tree. If I shoot the coon out, I step them away from the coon and send them with coon laying right there.

My method would be more like yours but it is a good method to teach people that don't ues there collar for training how to get started at it with out messing up there dog.
Personaly I just start walking and tell them can't get it come on and they better do it or they get the collar but mine know I controll the collar. I am like you I want them to know it comes from me. If it is slick I use a switch though.
I have started to rethink this though becouse in a nite hunt you leash and lead away. So I might do a little changeing on that if I have any trouble in hunts when all the other dogs go back.

Posted by coonsmen on 12-01-2010 09:42 PM:

Can one of you elaborate please. I only get bloodlines and didn't get to read the article.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 10:08 PM:

Mr. Wick just talks about leading them off a tree and reading there body language enough to know if they are going to go back to the tree or go on hunting. Then if they are going back to just nick them on low to medium to change there mind before they get to excited about the sin they are fixing to commit.
You would of had to read another article he wrote in a previous mag. to know how to condition a dog to the collar and to know what level of elec. to use on a particular dog. That is why I use the Dogtra collar. I can make the elec. (punishment ) fit the crime on and dog any sixe or temperment. For something like what we are talking about I would use just enough to make there neck flench. Another thing he says is to not say a word so the dog doesn't know you are the one shocking it. I allways teach my dog I am the one shocking it and it is to do nothing to upset me.
I just want to sneek around and correct them when they have no idea how I know they are doing something wrong. That way they learn to mind with the collar off and when they are out of my sight.
Like barking in the kennel. If there collar is off and they figure out I can't do anything about there barking. The punishment for barking becomes me going, putting the collar on and SHOCKING THE CRAP OUT OF THEM. tHEY LEARN TO QUIET WHEN TOLD even when the collar is off. If it has to go on they get it HOT and I leave it on them for 2 days.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 10:22 PM:

To give you an idea of the basics. To teach come, put them on a long line and nick just enough to make the neck flinch a little, tell them to come, then pull them to you nicking them evey time your heart beats till they make body contact to you. Before long they learn the only safe place to be is with you after the command. After they learn the command and the punishment for not obeying then you can turn the punishment up to fit the crime. Never give enough to scare the dog. A dog can't think any better than a kid when it is scared. If you see it is don't stop the nick just turn it down. Once you give the command and start the nick you never stop. You just turn the elec. down.
You can use this to make a cattle dog directional. Put it on the other side of a fence. Walk to the dogs left say left and start the nick. When the dog starts that direction stop the nick. They learn things in minutes that use to take days to train for.
Heal, put it on a leash, say heal, when it gets out of position nick nick till it is in the sweet spot and the nick stops. You may have to show it by pulling it back into the sweet spot a few times but before long it knows were to stay to keep the elec. off. After you get good at doing it you can teach a stuburn dog in minutes.
Even the dogs that are cowards and fear you will come and think of you as the safest place to be.

Posted by Ray&Luie on 12-01-2010 10:23 PM:

Re cast

Im with Jim on this one, this is one time , all i need is a good Limb and a get gone

__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 10:26 PM:

Re: Re cast

quote:
Originally posted by Ray&Luie
Im with Jim on this one, this is one time , all i need is a good Limb and a get gone

That works good too but what if the dog just runs around and around the area so you can't catch it but won't leave or gets soft when you walk up to the good trees?

Posted by Ray&Luie on 12-01-2010 10:59 PM:

re cast

if he know to come when i call him id call him to me less him up and walk off from the tree and then send him on, if he dont know what come means youv got other problems

__________________
Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 11:05 PM:

Re: re cast

quote:
Originally posted by Ray&Luie
if he know to come when i call him id call him to me less him up and walk off from the tree and then send him on, if he dont know what come means youv got other problems

Yep if he don't come soon after I own him I will plant him BUT never had to do that over a simple command like come.

Posted by jculler8 on 12-01-2010 11:06 PM:

Re: Re: Re cast

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
That works good too but what if the dog just runs around and around the area so you can't catch it but won't leave or gets soft when you walk up to the good trees?

This problem should have been taken care of long ago in the yard. In this particular case, I'd say that the handler would be "putting the cart BEFORE the horse."

I'm with Jim as well on this one. I have trained 2 dogs AFTER they were grown adults on how to cast from a previously scored tree once UKC changed their rules. Not once did I use a switch, e-collar or anything besides my voice and a lead!

It took a lot of time, but it takes a lot of time to put the finishing touches on any kind of hound.

Sometimes in today's coonhunting world, guys need to LEARN there is not a quick fix for everything and sometimes it just takes some old fashioned boot leather and some time.

__________________
OAKS POINT KENNELS

HOME OF

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' OAKS POINT COON BUSTIN' BELLE HTX 2013 UKC Top 100 (May 2006-January 2017)

'PR' OAKS POINT STRIKE-EM OUT BEAU (May 2006-June 2016)

PKC CH NITECH GRCH 'PR' COON BUSTIN' WHITE STUFF

CH 'PR' GOLD RUSH EXPO

'PR' BLACK KNIGHT'S BALU JETTA (May 2013-October 2015)

CH 'PR' CHERRY CREEK XBOX 2016 Treeing Walker Days King of Show

Posted by Bluedogman on 12-01-2010 11:12 PM:

Re: re cast

quote:
Originally posted by Ray&Luie
if he know to come when i call him id call him to me less him up and walk off from the tree and then send him on, if he dont know what come means youv got other problems

Exactly!

__________________
Johnny Williams

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 11:16 PM:

That is the thing about the e-collar. It isn't that you have to use it. It just saves time. Your right if you start with a young pup you won't have the problem much but if you are fixing an older dog it saves you a lot of time and makes it more reliable.
John Wick is one that has hunted a long time and has kept up with faster ways and more reliable ways of training. Atleast on this topic. I don't know the man. Just read his column. You can train things with the collarin minutes that it takes a lot of boot leather and time to train for with other techniques. I trained a lot of dogs before these things were made and a lot more before I ever owned one.

Posted by Bluedogman on 12-01-2010 11:30 PM:

I really believe the seasoned coon hunters I see commenting on this thread probably already know how to best use their e-collars and hunt and train their coon dogs without the help of Mr wick or anyone else! No insult intended to Mr Wick in his infinite wisdom and experience.

__________________
Johnny Williams

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-01-2010 11:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bluedogman
I really believe the seasoned coon hunters I see commenting on this thread probably already know how to best use their e-collars and hunt and train their coon dogs without the help of Mr wick or anyone else! No insult intended to Mr Wick in his infinite wisdom and experience.

There not the ones that need the help. It is our future, the new ones that are just getting started that need the help and some good people try to help them. If you read all the thread it mentions some were up there it is to help the ones just starting with e-collars.

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:13 PM.

Show all 16 posts from this thread on one page