UKC Forums - Stud dog owners # of pups

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 01-19-2010 03:00 AM:

Stud dog owners # of pups

If you stud your dog out what do you consider a litter 1,2,3 pups ect. if the female had only one pup would you offer a rebreed free of charge or at a discount. had a buddy's female only have one pup after traveling and paying stud fee. Stud owner said he done his part.

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Posted by CBkennels on 01-19-2010 03:10 AM:

I would offer a free rebreed on 4 or less. If I thought enough of a female to breed it, Id want as many pups out of her as possible. it would also maybe depend on age also, but I would still give them an offer for another approved female if that one couldnt be bred again. Just me, but I dont do ths for the money, just ask my wife, LOL

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Posted by Kevin Self on 01-19-2010 03:13 AM:

When i studded out Hitch I said a litter was five alive at birth

Posted by on 01-19-2010 03:17 AM:

Depends on the situation, but I'd like to think if I brought a female to an advertised stud dog I'd want at least 4 pups to help recoop expenses of paying a stud fee, traveling and etc. Any stud owner that doesn't offer a re-breed (If the dam owner requests it) shouldn't be promoting a stud.

Personally, I wish every litter only produced 3-4 pups. I think it would solve a lot of issues.

Posted by HOBO on 01-19-2010 03:36 AM:

Most use to say in their ads they would rebreed for under 5 pups. But if they female had one pup it's not the male that's the problem. The female only dropped one egg.

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Posted by trackntreeman on 01-19-2010 03:46 AM:

pups

live ltter i advertise on jack is 2 pups or more , the reason being i only charge 150.00 for breeding . but i think that some of the higher price studs like say 400.00 and up should honer at least 4 pups or more . reason being you couldn't sale 2 pups and cover a 400.00 stud fee and pay for paper's , feed . etc , like a 150.00 fee would .

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 01-19-2010 03:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Most use to say in their ads they would rebreed for under 5 pups. But if they female had one pup it's not the male that's the problem. The female only dropped one egg.

how do you know that maybe the stud has very low semen count. the stud is also 8-9 yrs old the female is 3.

Posted by HOBO on 01-19-2010 04:02 AM:

Everything I've ever read said if he's able to get one pup in a litter he's able to get more.

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 01-19-2010 04:27 AM:

I agree the female is the one that det the number of pups i understand a low sperm count but think about it how many sperm cells are in a drop of semen im not saying the female is always the problem but she is bigest part of the time i looked a semen off an 8 year old male now i know this is just one dog but at 8 years the vet rated the sperm count at 68% and said that is good sperm and there were thousands of those things

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Posted by Christy on 01-19-2010 04:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham
how do you know that maybe the stud has very low semen count. the stud is also 8-9 yrs old the female is 3.

THERE IS MORE THAT GOES INTO CONCIEVING A LITTER THAN THE SIRE'S SEMEN. FOUND THIS INFO ON A WEBSITE.

Litter Size in Dogs

Ultimately, many variables work collectively to determine litter size. Understandably we expect the dam to exert an influence, and it’s commonly thought that the sire, too, can impact litter size. Perhaps not so recognized is the impact the embryos themselves can make. Breeding management plays several roles in the number of offspring we can expect. And it’s not too hard to accept that genetics, environment and nutrition all have a part to play as well.

Dam

Now if we start with the dam, we can identify specific factors that will bear on litter size. Every litter starts with the estrous cycle. Within each cycle are four distinct stages which must work in harmony for optimal breeding results. The first stage, proestrus, is the initial signs that the female is coming in heat including the enlarging vulva and the bloody discharge. What we can’t see are the pheromones that the bitch is secreting to attract the attention of suitors, but we generally can observe the results. When she gets to the point where she will accept mating, she has transitioned into estrus, the second phase of the complete cycle. She is ovulating, and the number of viable ova available for fertilization is obviously going to exert a very strong influence on the final litter size. We may well have fewer puppies born than ova that were ovulated, but we will never have more pups that ova. Additionally, it is possible for the bitch to exhibit every sign of a fertile cycle, without actually ovulating. Unfortunately, unless we specifically look for evidence of ovulation using hormone assays or other diagnostics, we have no way of knowing whether or not ovulation occurred. When the bitch loses interest in accepting the male, she is beginning the diestrus phase. During this time the uterus, the mammary tissue, and dam’s metabolism is preparing for pregnancy, whether or not she is actually pregnant. During this phase the follicular cells on the ovaries are secreting progesterone to maintain a pregnancy. This stage will persist for about 60 days. Finally, her body shifts into the final stage of her estrous cycle, which is anestrus. It is commonly thought that this is a sexually quiescent time, with nothing in particular happening. Actually, it is a tremendously important phase when the uterus returns to a normal, non-pregnant state. We know that this phase requires at least 90 days for that repair and rejuvenation to reach completion. If the bitch we want to breed is cycling too frequently, her uterus may not be prepared to accept embryos, and the embryos die. It can appear that she was not successfully bred for whatever reason, when in fact she got pregnant, but early embryonic death (EED) occurred.

The age of the bitch can also affect litter size. Not surprisingly, very young and very old dogs produce smaller litters. The age of the bitch when she has her first litter induces an impact. When a bitch is 4 years old or older when she has her first litter, her litters will be smaller than a younger dog. With subsequent litters we see an overall decrease in litter size after 5 years of age in the majority of breeds. We expect the first litter for any bitch to be smaller. Litter size will increase with each litter generally through the third, sometimes the fourth litter. Then the number of pups decreases steadily.

Another factor the bitch owns is her breed. As one would expect, smaller breeds tend to have smaller litters, and vice versa. An important point however, is the breeder’s expectation. Often times the assumed average litter size is based on nothing more than conjecture and possibly the reports of other breeders. The problem with that is the population involved is too small to really reflect a true average value.

AKC performed a three year study involving 15 breeds, in order to gather data on litter sizes, ages of dam, number of litters, etc. A total of 728,271 litters were included in this time period. The representative data gathered is truly reflective of the breeds involved. Just to illustrate the information on some of the breeds, we’ll look at 2 breeds from each large, midsize and small breed dogs. Labrador Retrievers had a typical range of 5 to 10 puppies, with 7.6 average puppies, looking at over 85,000 litters. German Shepherds were evaluated with just over 44,500 litters, showing a normal range of 4 to 9 pups, and an overall average number of 6.6. In the American Cocker Spaniel breed, 39,000 litters provided data showing an average litter size of 5, with a normal range of 3 to 7 pups. Shetland sheepdogs produced over 28,400 litters in this 3 yr period, revealing a typical litter size ranging from 2 to 6 pups, and the average litter size was 4.3. Yorkshire terriers were represented by just over 53,000 litters, ranging from 2 to 5 puppies per litter with an average of 3.3. Chihuahuas had identical results based on 55,500 litters. The point being that if one expects a German Shepherd to consistently produce 8 pups with each litter, thinking that an "average litter size", he might conclude that she is not performing up to her potential if she’s producing 4, 5 or 6 pups, which is well within the normal range for that breed. Likewise, while Chihuahuas and Yorkies have a typical range of 2 to 5 pups, 80% of all litters are 4 pups or less.

We’ll leave the main issues involving the dam with the concluding thoughts that her health, reproductively, and in general, will act upon her ability to produce puppies.

Sire

So does the sire sway the litter size? Our usual method of evaluating the efficacy of a potential sire is by determining semen quality. The parameters by which that quality is judged are sperm concentration, morphology and motility. Normally, the concentration of sperm will be around 10 million sperm per pound body weight. We want to see 80% normal morphology at least. Motility needs to be not only movement, but effective movement linearly and with speed. Ideally 75 to 80% of the sperm on the slide will be traveling quickly in a linear manner. Not surprisingly, age does affect semen quality. Like the decreasing production seen in bitches as they age past 5, males will also show a decrease in semen quality as they get to be 6 or so. The assumption of semen quality impacting litter size is not really pertinent. Rather, it is the ability of a male to get a female pregnant at all. What we see when semen quality decreases, is fewer pregnancies resulting when breeding the male in question. In a young healthy male with good semen quality, we can expect 9, or even 10, out of 10 breedings to result in pregnancy (assuming breeding timing is appropriate). With lower semen quality, we may only see 3 or 4 pregnancies from 10 matings. So basically, if the semen has enough sperm to get one ovum fertilized, there is enough to get the other ova fertilized, again assuming the timing of the breeding is optimal.

Embryo

It can be difficult, if not impossible, to fully appreciate the differences between the number of fertilized eggs, developing embryos, and the fetuses that survive to birth. Early embryonic death claims a significant number of the "litter", with infectious diseases being the most common factor. If the embryo has a developmental defect, it may result in death and resorption. Developmental defects may result from genetics, trauma, exposure to drugs or vaccines, or infectious agents. Occasionally an embryo will inherit defective genes from both parents that kills it. In these ways, the embryo itself can affect the number pups delivered.

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Posted by scott shaw on 01-19-2010 04:37 AM:

I agree with Hobo, The number of eggs the female has usually
determines how many pups in the litter. Some females only have
a couple pups every litter. Should the stud owner breed
a female that only drops a couple eggs per heat for free her
whole life?

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Posted by smokin-1-mo on 01-19-2010 04:43 AM:

I LIKE TO SEE THEM GET AT LEAST 3 PUPS...RAT POISON WILL BE 8 NEXT MONTH AND HAS A VERY GOOD SPERM COUNT THIS BEING SAID I THINK IF THEY GET JUST ONE PUP IT IS THE FEMALE ...BUT I WOULD REBREED..........WE BRED 4 FEMALES THE LAST 4 MONTHS OF THE YEAR (09) ONE HAD 8 PUPS,ONE HAD 14 ONE DIDNT TAKE BUT THAT IS HER SECOND TIME NOT TO WITH TWO DIFFERENT STUDS THE OTHER IS DUE FEB.5 AND SHOWING HEAVY WITH PUPS......

Posted by David Boggs on 01-19-2010 07:29 AM:

btt

i would rebread unless i told you if you get onley 1 pup it counts,,but this is just me i would rebreed becalws if i was studding a dog it would be good 4 buesness but i onley breed my old dog to a bitch that is a good one and would not not charg a penney but i am no big time breeder eather.i am breeding a femail of mine that is a coon dog to a coon dog and he is 15 years old and a 12 houre drive from me and if i get 1 pup to live from him i will be happy as heck but i hope i get more and yes the stud i am breeding to is free and from one of the worlds most respected breeders and one of the hardest hunters there is like my sealf when i get over my surgery, he lives in the north and i will say no more .david boggs

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Posted by ky hillbilly on 01-19-2010 08:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Most use to say in their ads they would rebreed for under 5 pups. But if they female had one pup it's not the male that's the problem. The female only dropped one egg.

HOBO this is true,but weak sperm does not reach every egg.

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Posted by kycooner1 on 01-19-2010 11:24 AM:

Ive raised Rabbits before ,and certain bucks would always thro 8 to 10 rabbits were some bucks breeding to the same does would only average 4,So i definetly feel the sire has a lot to do with # of pups produced.

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Posted by Big R.D. on 01-19-2010 02:38 PM:

pups

it was my female that had only one pup she is 3 years old i called the stud owner back and told him if he bred her again that if she had over four pups in the next litter he could have half of the pups i am not blaming the stud or the dam if it happened again i would say its the dam but i wanted a female pup and thats what i got so things aint that bad.

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