UKC Forums - Breeding questions

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-- Breeding questions (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928541757)

Posted by fogebotom on 10-11-2021 04:02 PM:

Breeding questions

So, first post here but I've been reading the forum for some time and I'm a long time breeder of a different breed.

I've been mulling this for the last week after chatting with someone else about a breeding.

Why are coonhound people in general, show a reluctance to use things like progesterone testing, collection, shipping, frozen semen, AI?

My original breed has been utilizing this for over 35 years and was actually one of the first breeds to do a cross country frozen semen shipment. We have a small, relatively rare breed but a very dedicated breeder base.

Some of it's not hard at all. Under vet supervision, I've learned to collect my own stud dogs, AI doing side by side fresh collections and also collect and ship fresh chilled. We use both lab and in house progesterone(at the vet clinic). And I do have shipments sent to my vet for TCI and surgical implants.

The expense is minimal as compared to the long distance travel required to get bitches to the stud dogs(I know this for a fact). Stress on the female, missing a breeding window, lost work time, inability to use a dog due to the distance, sickness, etc.

Just very curious and greatly appreciate any comments either way. For stud dog owners it allows for the greater use of a dog. Female owners it gives you a lot more diversity to chose from.

Posted by Nathan Phenix on 10-11-2021 04:50 PM:

I have had females progesterone tested when traveling far to have her bred where I might not be able to have her bred multiple times. I bought chilled semen and had it shipped with guaranteed breeding. Female didn’t take and guy never would make it right so that kinda burned me on that deal. Seems to be several dogs collect these days.

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Posted by fogebotom on 10-11-2021 05:23 PM:

Agree, we all have issues with every type of breeding we try to do. Lots of it is luck of the draw. Had a fresh chilled AI produce 2 and a random why don't we breed her, produce 10. And also the exact reverse. Plus the misses.

While, yes I know of a few who do now collect, my question came from a frustrating situation in hounds a while back where I was pretty much met with blank stares when asked do you collect and ship? In my other breed if you aren't prepared to do that, you often get left by the wayside.

I currently have a close friend in my other breed, lives close to me and I was the first to use her stud dog. So now when he needs collected, he comes to my house, we collect and either have the female at my house and AI or collect to ship. My vet clinic at my request, started in house testing too. I've also started training my own males to collect, just in case. I keep coolers, extender and collection supplies on hand.

With contracts, either a puppy contract or stud contract, it's only as good as the people who sign it. Word of mouth on those that do or don't stand behind their dogs does a lot.

Posted by Dogwhisper on 10-11-2021 06:01 PM:

"Why are coonhound people in general, show a reluctance to use things like progesterone testing, collection, shipping, frozen semen, AI? "

I've bred every which way possible .....includeing collecting it myself and A.I.

My guess is lack of knowledge....(generally)
But I've haven't experienced the reluctance u speak of....
On the contrary.....

JME

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-11-2021 07:03 PM:

1. Cost, this to me is the biggest reason.

2. Lack of experience caused by not breeding that many females. The overwhelming majority of Coonhound breeders are not professional breeders.

3. You can usually find a nice stud without traveling that far.

4. Lack of vets with experience in AI and frozen semen.

Now that is only what I have found.

Posted by honalieh on 10-12-2021 12:22 AM:

Reluctance?

I don't see this reluctance you are mentioning.

Many are using frozen semen or chilled semen. When you do that, you are most certainly having your female progesterone tested.

I actually see it going more and more this way.

Posted by Toad Hill on 10-13-2021 03:42 PM:

Alot of people are reluctant because they they know a live cover is a Done Deal and its EASY.

There are alot of reasons ( many already listed) and one is they feel that anything besides a live cover is a "risky" investment and that could be because of >>>>>
- due to access to a vet that knows anything about reproductive services or one that actually promotes REPRODUCTION ( most these days just want to spay or neuter your dogs).
- bad experiences in the past or a friend had bad luck ( this could be due to ALOT of reasons )
- not knowledgeable enough to do it themselves or willing to learn
- taking advise from people who DONT KNOW and think they do.

I have been very blessed to have one of the best REPRODUCTIVE Vets in the country close to me and have learned a ton over the years from collection, inseminations (fresh,chilled,frozen), storage , controlled temp's in shipping, timing, tests, do's & dont's .

I know this, when you FAIL you learn ALOT. Its not enjoyable but you do learn and tend to REMEMBER and make the appropriate adjustments next time .

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Posted by Lone Pine JB on 10-13-2021 06:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toad Hill

- due to access to a vet that knows anything about reproductive services or one that actually promotes REPRODUCTION ( most these days just want to spay or neuter your dogs).

I'd say this and cost are 2 biggest factors.

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Posted by Sonny Phipps on 10-14-2021 12:15 AM:

A lot of reasons posted, I also think the cost involved is a issue. The price of pet breeds and cross bred pets is way more profitable then one can get for top bred coonhounds. This game isn’t about making money, but you surely like to loose less then you need to.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-14-2021 01:48 PM:

It makes sense to pay for all of that progesterone testing, semen shipping and AI if you are selling the pups for $1,000 to $5,000 each.

Posted by LoggyBayouBlues on 10-14-2021 03:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by fogebotom
Agree, we all have issues with every type of breeding we try to do. Lots of it is luck of the draw. Had a fresh chilled AI produce 2 and a random why don't we breed her, produce 10. And also the exact reverse. Plus the misses.

While, yes I know of a few who do now collect, my question came from a frustrating situation in hounds a while back where I was pretty much met with blank stares when asked do you collect and ship? In my other breed if you aren't prepared to do that, you often get left by the wayside.

I currently have a close friend in my other breed, lives close to me and I was the first to use her stud dog. So now when he needs collected, he comes to my house, we collect and either have the female at my house and AI or collect to ship. My vet clinic at my request, started in house testing too. I've also started training my own males to collect, just in case. I keep coolers, extender and collection supplies on hand.

With contracts, either a puppy contract or stud contract, it's only as good as the people who sign it. Word of mouth on those that do or don't stand behind their dogs does a lot.

Just curious, what is your other Breed?

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Posted by Toad Hill on 10-14-2021 06:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It makes sense to pay for all of that progesterone testing, semen shipping and AI if you are selling the pups for $1,000 to $5,000 each.

Richard,
Not Necessarily.
Depends on what "semen" your shipping AND what kind of "Ai" you are referring to ....?

Posted by L. Poe on 10-24-2021 01:39 AM:

Years ago I used PG600 to bring a fuel grand female into heat that was supposedly never able to breed again and hadn't come in heat naturally for a couple years. (I forget exactly how long now). PG600 wasn't labeled for dogs but the female was up in years anyway. A nothing to lose situation. From the resulting heat and breeding 2 pups were born. Several months later the female came in heat naturally again and another litter was born. In that second litter came female who would grow up to be UKC world show champion Cinderella.

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Posted by oklared on 10-24-2021 04:01 PM:

WHY DONT THEY DO ALL THAT TO THOROUGHBRED HORSES

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Posted by shadinc on 10-24-2021 04:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by oklared
WHY DONT THEY DO ALL THAT TO THOROUGHBRED HORSES

Mares are in heat every month, bitches aren't.

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