UKC Forums - Registration Question

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Posted by ohlinger on 01-13-2011 02:59 AM:

Registration Question

Can you register an A.K.C Registered dog U.K.C that is over 15 inches ? Not to compete, but for the sake of carrying the papers, and pontential offspring ?

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Posted by Kevin Watkins on 01-13-2011 04:16 AM:

No, unless it was litter reg. as a pup and was never measured out at a permanent measuring attempt.

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Posted by TOUCHSTONEBEAGL on 01-13-2011 05:20 PM:

Good question!

Copied from Dog Events Board:

Attention Conformation Judges
Recently all of the breed standards that contained disqualifications for height have been revised to change those disqualifications to Eliminating Faults. An Eliminating Fault is one that is so severe that it eliminates the dog from being given any award. The dog is not excused from the ring, but it is not to be given a ribbon. If you are presented with a dog of a measurable breed that you feel is outside of the height parameters stated in the standard, please measure the dog, and if it is over or under size, mark your book 'Eliminating Fault, measured out, awards withheld'. The dog may continue to be shown at other shows, and there is no additional paperwork to complete.

When a judge measures a dog out under the Eliminating Fault rule, that dog is not counted as competition, because all awards were withheld from the dog. This is according to the UKC Conformation Rulebook. You can find the exact wording on pages 48 and 49 of the 2009 rulebook.

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The 2009 rulebook that is referred to above is the Dog Events Rulebook.
Because there is no Height Disqualification can the dog be registered?
How does this effect the permanent measuring process? I wonder how many in the hunt programs even know that UKC no longer DISQUALIFIES dogs because of height.
I am guessing that if a dog permanent measures over 15 that it is permanently eliminated from competition but that it is not disqualified by the breed standard. It seems to me the dog could still be used for breeding with no problem registering pups! Hope someone from UKC will confirm or explain how this works. This would also effect single registrations. Is it true that dogs that measure over 15 when single registering would still be permitted to register because height is no longer a disqualification?

Posted by ohlinger on 01-13-2011 08:12 PM:

Thanks for the info Dan but...lol can this particular dog still be register U.K.C even though he is over 15 inches ?

Posted by big matt t. on 01-13-2011 08:16 PM:

ukc breed standards says they must b 15 inchs or smaller correct?? y would they register a hound that is over 15 inchs com on shaun u no better lol!!!! u dnt listen hahahahahahaha jus messn with brother!!!!!

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Posted by ohlinger on 01-13-2011 08:20 PM:

Yeah that is what i figured, but just figured if it's got a.k.c papers maybe you could just send in a copy of the pedigree and get it u.k.c registered too or sommething i'm not sure how that crap works....

Posted by smokes creek on 01-13-2011 08:28 PM:

A dog seeking to be registered UKC, must be inspected by a breed inspector or confirmation judge, and must meet the breed qualifications, including being under 15" and measured at the time of inspection. Under UKC "Disqualifications" rule it states "over 15" in height"

Rick

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When its no longer fun, sell the hounds and take up Golf.

Posted by tjcrewse on 01-13-2011 10:08 PM:

The Thing Here is that YOU can Still register a Dog Via MAIL!!!
On the Single application Form All you have to Do is Send in a Copy of the AKC Certificate....
NOW on the Form itself it ASKS is this Dog 15" Tall or under
All you Would have to Do is mark it YES and Send in your Pictures OR have it inspected!!!!
Can Any of Yall Tell the True Height of a beagle by its pictures??
NOW we can Only HOPE that if you Have it Inspected that the INSPECTOR is HONEST
Now all this is On the HUNTING BEAGLE single registration Application....

BUT Now here is the Kicker
YOU Do NOT HAVE to USE it
YOU Can Single register the Hound With UKC
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/...ionBeagleSingle

quote:
For a Beagle that is not already registered with UKC and whose parents are not both UKC registered, we offer Single Registration
.
The rules for Single Registration for this breed are as follows:

1. Completed UKC Application for Beagle Single Registration

2. Copy of your dog’s registration certificate from an UKC acknowledged registry** if available but is not required.
.... For this breed, we acknowledge the American Kennel Club, the Canadian Kennel Club,
.... the Kennel Club (of Great Britain), and any FCI affiliated registry.

NOTE: If dog is not registered with an acknowledged registry three color photos must be provided. One photo of each side and one from the front.
Photos should be taken at eye level and the dog should be in a standing position.

3. Your dog's complete three generation pedigree may be provided if known but is not required (photocopy or handwritten pedigree accepted)

4. Single Registration fee of $20.00

5. Dog's height measurement is required.

I Have Registered MANY Beagles this Way..If Say the Mother is UKC/AKC registered but the Sire is AKC registered Only then you have to Wait till the Dog is 6 mo old to single register them
We just send in a Copy of their AKC registration
UKC is still an HONOR system in that they Assume that you Will be Honest about the height of the hound..
BUT at 6 to 9 mo old Most are Not over 15"
So Therefore they CAN be UKC registered..
So to Answer your Question Shawn..

YES you Can...

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Posted by Crittergitter2 on 01-13-2011 10:20 PM:

Hey yo crewse looks like maybe you have done this??

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Posted by tjcrewse on 01-13-2011 10:44 PM:

Yes I HAVE Single registered MANY beagles over the years....
But No I have never purposely registered One that was over 15"

I Do have 2 (two) here that are over 15" but BOTH were registered before they went over....

What of it???

it is NOT a disqualifying FAULT as far as Registration Goes just cannot Compete either hound in AKC or UKC

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Posted by smokes creek on 01-13-2011 10:47 PM:

TC, you are right! Its a bit of a strange rule for sure, and it sends two messages to a new trialer... I find it a bit off that a akc over size dog, can be ukc reg, but cant compete in trials?? But if a fella wants to send in his $20, they will take it..lol Im in the wrong line of work!! (akc does the same too)
That is one rule that should be seriously looked at. I hope if guys are getting away with it, they will not be able to squeek by at the trials. In the past, I have had to measure a hound on the bench that is showing under me. Its not a popular thing to do, but feel it should be done by more judges.
When I have a oversize dog, it's sent to Tenn. to the deer hunting guys..without papers

Thanks for shedding some light on this topic.

Ricky G

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When its no longer fun, sell the hounds and take up Golf.

Posted by tjcrewse on 01-13-2011 11:00 PM:

yeah Rick like I said I would never Purposely Register an over Sized Hound

We as breed inspectors have a DUTY to Call out the over Sized hounds that are being trailed..Exhibited

Would I put one Down for being Over NO but I would not try to Exhibit this hound either....
Do i feel that thier UKC/AKC registration be Revoked?
NO!! I Do not!! they just cannot be Shown or trailed...

Critter Dont know What YOUR problem is but if you Would like to Discuss it just Send me a PM
but until you identify yourself Dont Bother you aint Worth it!!!

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Posted by smokes creek on 01-14-2011 12:04 AM:

Well instead of measuring them KY hounds, get all the 18" plus ones and head up here to play in the snow!!! lol If it keeps snowing I may be looking to buy a few of them biggons!! Hope all is good in my favorite State!!! Cant wait to get back to Kentucky!

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Rick Giermata - UKC Field Rep. New York State - 716-602-5017

Smokes Creek kennels-Where Hunting dogs are made!

When its no longer fun, sell the hounds and take up Golf.

Posted by ohlinger on 01-14-2011 12:25 AM:

If the dog is purebred and is not whipping anyones in the hunts (which he would if he could LOL) then i don't see the problem. He is a purebred dog with a.k.c papers to prove it...I think he would be a great dog to breed one of my bitches too...and just want to see if he could be registered u.k.c for the sake of the bitches puppies being traced back to her as litter registered.

Posted by TOUCHSTONEBEAGL on 01-14-2011 02:37 PM:

Over 15 in height is not a disquallification in the UKC beagle standard as stated in my previous post. The UKC height DQ was changed to an elimination fault. This change was made back in 2009. Surprising to me that so few know about the UKC breed standard change. Bench judges should not/can not disqualify dogs for being over 15". Still not sure how this effects registrations. Fact is a dog could be a bit over 15 and still offer great things to the breeding program. Will need some clarification from UKC on this. The UKC beagle breed standard is probably the same in all UKC venues.

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