UKC Forums - U score it

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Posted by Tbaker on 07-01-2003 07:48 PM:

U score it

4 dog cast, all dogs struck and treed. get to tree- 3 dogs treeing on a bunch of vines that grew down over fence row. Other dog 20 feet down fence, feet on post looking up treeing every bark. Now here is the ? Vines go from where 3 dogs are to above where single dog is. coon is right above the single dog, but vines go every where. except down to single dog. how do you score?

Posted by Art Thompson on 07-01-2003 07:52 PM:

I would have to plus them all.

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Posted by Sleepy Hollow on 07-01-2003 08:08 PM:

yep

Plus em all...

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Posted by Shawn E. Ott on 07-01-2003 08:26 PM:

I would agree, plus them.

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Posted by pee dee on 07-01-2003 08:38 PM:

plus all

Posted by Tbaker on 07-01-2003 09:49 PM:

didn't happen that way.

That is how i saw it, but the judge minused my dog because there was nothing going up to the coon. I questioned it and the MOH agreed with the judge. I lost the Mich. State hunt because of that call quite a few years back. Also the dog that benifited from the call was owned by the judges partner.

Posted by Bear on 07-02-2003 01:47 AM:

You got rooked!!

Posted by Michael on 07-02-2003 02:05 AM:

Would you plus a dog that is treed on a small tree and the coon is on a limb of a larger tree directly over the dog, but didnt toutch the small tree . Its the same thing isnt it ? I under stand that your dog was winding the coon and knew he had him, but you have to try and score the same way every time. The only differnce is it is fence post and vines insted of trees.

Posted by Rip on 07-02-2003 03:26 AM:

Michael, if the dog is showing you the coon he should be plussed PERIOD. Would you minus a dog twenty feet off a tree directly under a coon on a limb? You can't cause he IS showing you the tree, the one the coon is in, whether his feet are on it or not. If the dog is directly under the coon then he should be plussed. I do realize that in this day and time some folks will do anything to win, but that dog was showing tree better than the others that got plussed, he was actually under the coon.

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Posted by DAVE FREEMAN JR on 07-02-2003 05:47 AM:

RIP I'D HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THE DOGS BEING RIGHT UNDER THE COON SHOWING WHERE IT'S AT. IN THE PKC WORLD HUNT LAST YEAR WE TREED UP A SMALL TREE THAT WAS RIGHT UNDER THE LIMBS OF A BIG OAK WITH A COON IN IT DIRECTLY ABOVE THE DOGS. THE SMALL TREE WAS ABOUT 3-4 FEET FROM TOUCHING THE LIMBS OF THE OAK TREE. THE NON HUNTING JUDGE MINUSED THE TREE AND NOBODY QUESTIONED IT. IF THE TREES DON'T TOUCH YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO TAKE YOUR MINUS. THAT'S JUST THE BREAKS OF THE GAME SOMETIMES.

Posted by Rip on 07-02-2003 06:33 AM:

It depends, was the dog treeing the little tree or was he just proped up on it winding the coon. All he has to do is show tree with the coon in it, if he was treeing up the little tree then rightfully minus, if he was treeing the coon then plus. All it takes is a little common sense. If the judge determined he was treeing the coon then he would have no choice but to plus by the rules, however if he determined the dog to be treeing up the small tree in your example or the fencepost in the original post then he had no choice but to minus. There is a reason dogs are observed on the tree. Nowhere does it say the dog must have it's feet on the wood, only that they must show tree. If a dog was at the top of a bluff treeing a coon directly in front of it, even though he can't get to the base of the tree because of the bluff he is still plused.

I would say in your case the the judge determined the dog in question was treeing up the little tree instead of treeing on the coon. If he honestly felt that way then he had no choice but to minus.

Using the logic of minusing the dog on the fencepost then you would have to let a NtCh get away with treeing a possum in a sapling just because there wasn't room enough on the tree for all dogs and one of them proped up one tree over, looking at the possum and treeing his head off. However, since he didn't have his feet on the possum tree would you let him stay in the cast? I can tell you I would scratch him just as quick as the rest cause he was treeing the possum I don't care what tree his feet were touching.

Would you minus a dog in a pasture standing on his hind feet treeing a coon on a power line? The coon is there but there is no tree for him to tree up but he treed it on the powerline just the same. That is a plus tree too even though he is in a pasture with no tree in sight.

We would have to be there, but if the dog was treeing the coon then he should be plussed cause he WAS showing the proper tree. If he was treeing the wrong tree then he should be minused. That is a judgement call but most judges should be able to tell whether it was treeing the coon or not or they shouldn't be judging.

Don't get me wrong, I am a pretty strict judge and plus and minus accordingly whether it helps me or hurts me, but I also observe the dogs on the tree too and I know what a layup dog is and how they sometimes tree under the coon instead of feet on the wood. If you have a babbler or a slick treeing dog you won't like drawing out with me cause you will get the minus you deserve, but no more no less.

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Posted by Tank/UKC on 07-02-2003 12:12 PM:

Let's say...

...for arguement sake, that you were not comp hunting. You were actually hunting an 8 month old pup out of your favorite sire. You are hunting with two of your buddies older dogs and you walk into the situation above. Your dog is sitting directly under this coon and your buddies two dogs are on the vines. Do you...

1. Whip your doggie and send him on for missing the coon?
2. Pet that pup for treeing the coon
3. Knock the coon out to your pup for treeing a coon.

Makes no difference to me. But the correct way to score the above situation is to plus all dogs. What if it is one of the monster oak trees with about a 40'+ limb span. Three dogs are on the tree and one is sitting under a limb about 20' from the base of the tree barking up? The coon is above him on the end of the limb. He is showing tree and showing coon the same as the other three.

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Posted by on 07-02-2003 03:32 PM:

If the dog is setting under the coon but not on a diffrent tree then that is fine,but when he puts his feet on that other tree then he is split.Be it big oaks and saplings, or fence post and vines its the same thing.Ive seen dogs on cast tree on fence post and I dont mean on a fence they couldnt get trough.You have to score every situation the same. I know that his dog was winding the coon,but what if the dog was treed 20 feet from the coon because that was were he could wind it.Again you have to score them all the same if you dont your going to have a big mess.

Posted by Shawn E. Ott on 07-02-2003 03:34 PM:

How would this Nite Hunt Honor rule apply to this situation:

RULE 3b:

When dog is declared struck and treed and coon is seen other than in tree, dog declared treed to receive strike and tree points. Dogs not declared treed, strike points only. If dog catches coon, strike points only.

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