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Rules

3 dog cast registered hunt with hunting judge going to score last tree. Dog A is sitting at 175+, Dog B is 200+, and Dog C is 400+. Dog B 1rst strike 1rst tree, Dog A 2nd strike 2nd tree, Dog C 3rd strike 3rd tree and hunt time expires. On arriving to tree we here a dog squeal. We did not see what happened. When we arrive at tree Dog A is on tree, Dog B (judge's dog) is off tree, and Dog C is off tree. Judge minuses Dog C for being off tree. Vine is pulled coon is seen. Judge plus Dog A and Dog B. Dog B wins the hunt. It is obvious I am hunting Dog C. I disagreed with judge on call, and also said put a ? on scorecard. Nothing was done, and he won the hunt. The bad thing is this was a 2 night hunt. I drew out with the same guy 1rst night, he withdrew his dog, and I won the hunt not because he withdrew his dog but because I won fair and honest. 2nd night I draw out with him again, and this time he is the judge. What is the rule for this situation?

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chris69

There is no ruling on it being a two night hunt, who the judge is, or how many nights you draw out with the same guys. While we are only seeing one side of the story here, it appears that you could have been done wrong, but maybe not. The fact that "C" was minused for being off the tree would lead one to think that "B" should have been also. Remember that how far one is off is a judgement call made by the judge. Since you didn't like the call, you did ask for a question to be put on the card, which wasn't according to what I see here. You should have insisted the whole cast go back to the club house to chat with the MOH, or a panel set up by the HD. Since the judge didn't put the question on the card, and when a request for such is made, he/she have no choice but to do so, you could have requested a misconduct form to file against the judge. That obviously should be a last resort thing, but it is an option open to you here. There's little info being given up to this point, but the only real absolute wrong is the question not being noted on the card when requested. The rest would need sorting out, preferably in the woods, by a cast vote according to rule. Was a vote taken to minus/plus the dogs?
It takes a majority of the cast to do either when using a hunting judge. To make a hard fast decision here, more information is needed, but yes the question should have been noted on the card for sure.

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

Thanks for the information. Both Dog B and C were close to the same distance off tree. The 2 dogs were not in the same spot. Myself and other cast member both said question it and take it back to the DOH. The judge did not put a ? on the score card. I did return to club and judge told me that he talked to the DOH, and the ruling stood. My valuable lesson is I learned I should have talked to the DOH myself. Another question I have is the judge the only one who can put a ? on score card, and do I have to sign the score card in the field?

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chris69

A dog is not minused for being off the tree. The rules don't require dogs to be on the tree. They are minused for leaving the tree. The only requirements in the rules for a dog to scored as treed is that they bark once every two minutes and they don't leave the tree. UKC doesn't care how they tree as long as they don't leave.

The procedure to question a call by the judge is you must ask for a cast vote first. If you aren't satisfied with the outcone of the vote, you ask the judge to place a question on the card. The question is then heard by the MOH. Any cast member can question any ruling made by a hunting judge.
As for signing the card, only signature required is the winners. But if you dont sign the card and you win your question, you would still lose because you didn't sign the card.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

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Originally posted by ccpoultry
Thanks for the information. Both Dog B and C were close to the same distance off tree. The 2 dogs were not in the same spot. Myself and other cast member both said question it and take it back to the DOH. The judge did not put a ? on the score card. I did return to club and judge told me that he talked to the DOH, and the ruling stood. My valuable lesson is I learned I should have talked to the DOH myself. Another question I have is the judge the only one who can put a ? on score card, and do I have to sign the score card in the field?

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__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Myself and other cast member voted to question and take it back to DOH. I appreciate all the info. I think both dogs should have been minus or plus. I have been beat before and have no problem except when I think it's not honest. In that situation I think Dog A fought the Dog B and C off tree. The reason I say this is because in 2 nights I never saw these 2 dogs not standing on a tree. The judge knew where we were on points and that's the only way he could beat me. My opinion man won the hunt not the dog. I am not wanting to make judges look bad. I have hunted with real good judges, and this is the first bad one I have hunted with. But I am still learning.

__________________
chris69

Hunt

Was this hunt held with a Master of Hounds or Hunt Director? I don't know what a DOH signifies.

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David Disotell
(318) 288-1917

I think it was Hunt Director.

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chris69

Just hang in there and keep at it Chris. It gets harder to be hood winked after time and experience is under the belt. My suggestion is to get a rule book and begin reading it each time you have a minute. An Advisor book also helps with understanding what you are reading in the rule book and how to apply them.

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

quote:

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Originally posted by ccpoultry
Myself and other cast member voted to question and take it back to DOH.

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__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Rule

One thing to remember, if a question is brought back under a hunt director format, a panel must be assembled. A hunt director cannot make a decision the way a MOH can. Get a rule book and read, read, read. Question calls you think we're handled wrong. If a vote is made in the woods that you still don't agree with take it to the the club house. If you still think you are being done wrong put your money up for a review from UKC.

__________________
David Disotell
(318) 288-1917

Thanks guys. I will keep on hunting the hunts, and I will keep studying. I have learned a lot on this sight.

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chris69

I think a good old rule. Is it dog is off tree nosing around he isn't showing tree good enough for me, come back to greet you is OK with me, dogs like to show you what they have done, in the long run, win some loose some department