UKC Forums - rules Question

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-- rules Question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928302151)

Posted by Randy Howard on 02-15-2013 04:35 PM:

rules Question

4 dog cast 2 dogs tree, 2 handlers treed vote to circle and 2 vote to minus, a no doubt slick with a knot no hole seen and tree is about 6 inches across at the knot no way a coon could be there. How is this to be handled?

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Posted by JiM on 02-15-2013 04:40 PM:

2-2 tree vote is always circled in UKC.

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Posted by Randy Howard on 02-15-2013 05:20 PM:

Thanks Jim

Posted by southern hunter on 02-15-2013 05:28 PM:

I disagree majority of cast wins if vote is two to two then its not majority meaning it needs to be deleted

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Posted by southern hunter on 02-15-2013 05:30 PM:

Thats also what the advisor says to do

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Posted by ssgied on 02-15-2013 05:40 PM:

Page 25 at the top says 2 to 2 vote ( no majority ) must be circled.

Posted by truly on 02-15-2013 05:46 PM:

Re: rules Question

quote:
Originally posted by Randy Howard
4 dog cast 2 dogs tree, 2 handlers treed vote to circle and 2 vote to minus, a no doubt slick with a knot no hole seen and tree is about 6 inches across at the knot no way a coon could be there. How is this to be handled?

My comment is not in regards as to how to score it, but more in how to describe it. If two people vote to circle then it is NOT "a no doubt slick". It is in fact an unknown tree. YOU may have no doubt, but clearly 2 other cast members do.
I am amazed at how often people come back to the clubhouse talking about an "obvious, no doubt" situation when in fact they have been outvoted. Seems like a good way to stir up trouble. As the story would be told by the other two cast members, "it was an obvious, no doubt circle tree". Which would not be accurate either.

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Posted by Paul Frederick on 02-15-2013 06:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
Page 25 at the top says 2 to 2 vote ( no majority ) must be circled.

Even got the page number right! If no majority, you must circle.

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Posted by southern hunter on 02-15-2013 06:30 PM:

Thanks for the info always thought u deleted

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Posted by Randy Howard on 02-15-2013 08:53 PM:

Re: Re: rules Question

quote:
Originally posted by truly
My comment is not in regards as to how to score it, but more in how to describe it. If two people vote to circle then it is NOT "a no doubt slick". It is in fact an unknown tree. YOU may have no doubt, but clearly 2 other cast members do.
I am amazed at how often people come back to the clubhouse talking about an "obvious, no doubt" situation when in fact they have been outvoted. Seems like a good way to stir up trouble. As the story would be told by the other two cast members, "it was an obvious, no doubt circle tree". Which would not be accurate either.

I understand your comment Mr. Truly.(didn't mean to upset you in any way with my question and how I presented it and am not one to stir up trouble, just wondering how UKC handled it. Sorry Mr.)I don't hunt alot of hunts but If this is coming up quite often as you say, then there could be a problem?And if so maybe there needs to be something set up in the rules to keep the honest honest and curb the dishonest?Other KC delete and can question with money put up for panel to return and in knowing this I think it may keep handlers a little more honest and would most likely end alot of the coming back complaining you mentioned, if out voted and don't question then you have no right to complain but if panel rules for or against there are actions taken by the KC, money, barred for time,etc.These are HONOR rules but evidently some do use the situation to benefit themselves knowing there is no penalty for there actions. I have no problem using the rule if indeed a worthy 2 to 2 vote on a maybe tree where there could be a coon since all can not be shined etc. I understand that (even in my mind I and you know dog missed it) but if a chance take a vote and do whats right. CIRCLE on 2-2 vote got it.. Thanks all and Happy hunting

Posted by MikeR on 02-15-2013 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by southern hunter
I disagree majority of cast wins if vote is two to two then its not majority meaning it needs to be deleted

Disagree all you'd like, you're wrong. Look it up in the rules 2-2 vote is circled never deleted.

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Posted by southern hunter on 02-15-2013 10:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Disagree all you'd like, you're wrong. Look it up in the rules 2-2 vote is circled never deleted.

if u would read all the post before u comment u would see were i said i appreciated the info!!!!!!!! And it aint in the rules and if it is u tell. Me where its at

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Posted by MikeR on 02-16-2013 11:25 AM:

southern hunter

The coonhound advisor clarifies split votes and authority of a hunting judge -

Rule four plainly states; points will be minus when dogs tree and majority of the cast, when hunting Judge is used, can plainly see no coon is there.

In the situation you described (2 handlers treed vote to circle and 2 vote to minus), the cast did not reach a majority decision so the tree must be circled.

Remember, you must have majority of cast vote in order to plus a tree; you must have majority of cast to minus a tree. If you don’t have majority one way or the other, then you must circle the tree. The hunting Judge does not break a two to two vote when it comes to scoring a tree.

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