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Honesty/Integrity in competition?

I am asking this question because of my experiences in my first 5 competition hunts since August. Out of 5 hunts, only 1 was what I would consider a great cast. The reason it was a great cast is because no one tried to cheat or no one ask me to cheat. We had good dog power on that hunt, the winner of our cast won the hunt. anyway. The other 4 hunts, I have been asked to cheat on three and was cheated on one. Please let me make clear, I know the rules and I stuck with the rules and didn't back down, but the one I was cheated on, I withdrew my dog for his safety and didn't want him ruined. Once I was asked to get out my tracker system (because I carry it with me) and I said, we must call time out first. The other cast member said we would loose the points if we find the dogs treed. I said I didn't care about that, we must call time out. Another hunt I was specifically asked to say that a possum was a coon and I wouldn't do it and the other, they tried to tell me there was a coon up the tree when it was obvious ( extremely small tree with no other trees close enough for a coon to move into) that there wasn't. I'll be honest here, it has disappointed me to see this kind of behavior. In one respect, it has discouraged me somewhat from wanting to go to the hunts, even though I will still go. I'm an honest man just wanting to enjoy the hunt and for people to just follow the rules so anyone hunting can have a fair chance for his dog to win. Am I complaining, no, just disappointed and frustrated. I am a pleasure hunter at heart, but I do enjoy competition, but it is getting increasingly hard to enjoy a recreation when people have an "ego" about it. What are your thoughts? thanks.

pastor mike

Pastor Mike;

I for one, want to applaud you for standing up, and abiding by the rules. I wish more judges were like this, and not so easily convinced to go the other way because of friendship, or peer pressure.

The rules are there because not everyone is an honest, straight, and a stand-up person. Sounds like the rules prevailed over atleast 3 of the examples you listed. Just think if those rules were not there. In my opinion, one big part of having these rules is to keep dishonest people from totally making the hunt un winable for an honest person, and to give the honest hunter a clear and consise direction to lead.

Just my thoughts.

__________________
Shawn E. Ott
Churchville, VA
540-416-6346
Shawn.Ott@vaehinc.com


Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' Ott's Good Golly Miss Molly (Deceased August 12, 2014)

Gr.Nt.Ch. 'PR' Ott's Shenandoah Valley Kate(Deceased)
Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' Tree Slammin Mac (Deceased)

"A little less tree and a little more track"

Pastor Mike, I am very sympathic to your situaton. I read just about everything John Wicks has written, and several months ago he had an article that said, based on his experience competition hunting, about half of your hunts would not be a pleasant experience. I have found that to be very true. When I go to a club and instances occur, I try to talk to several of the members and found out if this is an ongoing problem. If it is. then I simpily don't return to that club. It is the responsibility of the club to get rid of these indiviguals. I have had some wonderful experiences hunting and make some new friends while competotion hunting. I would try to hunt at some different clubs. It may be further than you drive now, but the rewards may be worth it. I hunt several clubs in the Shenandoah Valley, and have had good hunts and a good time. The Charlottesville club also puts on a good hunt as well as the clubs around Lynchburg, the Concord Club, the Seminole club, just to mention a few. Most hunters want to let the dog win, thats the way it is supposed to be. Don't give up, or we will all loose. Good hunting everyone

__________________
Rick Gordon
Tree Slamming Kennel
Barboursville, Va.
434-978-2025
treeslammingkennel@yahoo.com

Nailor blood Powered by Black Gold

Now you know

why I have not attended many in recent years, Pastor Mike..........The folks that say it just goes on "once in a great while" obviously hunt at hunts with a better class of citizen than I was. And yes, it is dissapionting to know the rules, stick by your will, and then constantly having to not let folks get away with stuff.....................the point is, having to do this a great deal is not havin' a good time, ay??..................I will admit, things have gotten better...........the last 5 hunts that I either guided or judged, folks only tried to cheat in 2 of 'em..............you just have to ask yourself how much is too much to put up with.

It only takes 2 honest cast members to keep the whole cast honest.......I guess I have been lucky, I havent seen anwhere NEAR the cheating that I read about on these boards.

Maybe im just not smart enough to figure out how to cheat, but we have rules, and it DOES take a cast MAJORITY to + or - a tree.
If you follow the rules, the problems should be kept to a minnimum.

Thanks for the responses. I do appreciate the encouragement. I really do enjoy going to the clubs and talking and meeting new people and I have met some really fine folks. I also attended Oaks this year and met some fine folks there as well.

I agree Josh about the majority of the cast, it just happens that out of my 5 hunts only 1 had 4 dogs and the handler withdrew when he saw where we were hunting before we even made the drop. Usually the local clubs I hunt have anywhere from 6 to 10 registered dogs with about the same amount of nt ch. This past Saturday night we had 9 dogs, so they divided it up into 3 casts of 3. I do realize that I will have some great casts and believe me, I am looking forward to them, but I will stand my ground and do my part to help the sport and to promote better hunts. The only time I will withdraw will be if my dog is in danger in some form (whether a mean dog is in the cast or the place we are hunting). I will probably try and hunt this friday so I'll let everyone know how it goes.
I have thought about going a little east to check out some new clubs, but most of them are about 2 hours from me. But I'm willing to try new ones. thanks .

I have had some really great casts and some really horrible ones. That is like the cross section of people in the world. I have found that at the bigger hunts, generally, the hunters know the rules better and do not try to make up things as they go along. It can get very frustrating when you go to a small club with few dogs and draw a guy who knows a different set of rules than the ones you are used to going by. I think the buddy system is partly responsibly for that though. If everyone would stick by the rules we have as they are written, it sure would be much easier and less frustrating for everyone. Keep standing up for the rules Pastor Mike.

__________________
"Drive a red truck, hunt a blue dog, and take plenty of extra clothes"
Or be really different
ON A MISSION
"Drive a blue truck, hunt a striped dog, and still take plenty of extra clothes."

start-

by requesting to hold the card from here on out. Stick to your guns and when you finish your dog(s) you will be that much more satisfied because you did it the right way!

pastor mike
the cheats have a way of weeding themselves out,or changing their ways.
i know a few people that are straight shooters now,that were crooked as a dogs hind leg at one point in their life.
maybe a guy should be able to go to a hunt and draw a good honest cast.but if he dont,maybe he should thank the great spirit that he has the opurtunity to be an example of what a man should be.

I must say

that of all the hunts I have been in, say 20, I feel I have been treated fairly. Fact the only time I was cheated was when I was judge & basically, minus myself, when in fact, I shouldn't have according to the other cast members. Guess I'm faster on the pencil, when I am judging myself. Being a female, I fought hard to earn the respect of my fellow hunters. It took a while, but it has finally paid off for me. Also, I think being a MOH & hubby being a MOH, they feel they best not mess to much with me. They know I won't stand for ANY underhanded, slick ways! Guess I should just be glad I hunt mostly with the 'good ole boys' & let the cheaters for the big hunts & shows, lol. I can care less whether I win or lose, I go to have fun & spend time in the woods with ppl I know & trust! To me, no hunt is worth losing a friend over. A dog is no worse or no better with that NTCH or GRNTCH in front of its name. I feed these dogs & love them & personally could care less if anyone else likes them or not! This is all JMO, so take it for what it is worth I guess.

__________________
American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

Thanks for everyones responses. Even though I stick to my guns, I am still green at this competition stuff, but one thing is for sure, people will either like me for sticking to the rules or they will hate me. Either one is fine because hunting is not something to loose integrity over, is it? Personally, i don't think so. thanks again everyone.

I think it is because most of the cheats want to become DOG PIMPS. They dream of sitting on their sorry butts and watching their worthless biscuit eater studding them into instant fame and fortune.

Most of the dogs in the magazines, I would bet, are no better than the average country coon dog, maybe they have a big mouth on the tree, but more likely the owner is the one with the big mouth. True, some are very good, but some title before the name only really means that under certain conditions this dog can tree a coon.

Time out for this, lose points for that, a sorry dog can win a cast many times if they "me too" on one coon and just hang out the rest of the night. Now I will say this, from what I have seen a Grand Nite Champion is usually a good coon dog. A nite champion may or may not be, it takes a lot less to make it one.

It all boils down to one thing..........GREED. the lust for money and fame and fortune runs these types to do all sorts of things.

I hate that so many seem to be in this sport for the wrong reason.


Throwback

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Originally posted by Pastor Mike
Thanks for everyones responses. Even though I stick to my guns, I am still green at this competition stuff, but one thing is for sure, people will either like me for sticking to the rules or they will hate me. Either one is fine because hunting is not something to loose integrity over, is it? Personally, i don't think so. thanks again everyone.

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