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-- Hunt Question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928319796)

Hunt Question

4 DOG CAST.ALL ARE STRUCK IN
A&B TREED LEFT.{HAD COON}
DOG C GETS TREED TO THE RIGHT ABOUT 150 YARDS AWAY FROM A&B.
DOG D HAS NOT BEEN HEARD WHILE 5 WAS RUNNING.

NOW BOTH TREES ARE CLOSED.

JUDGE TELLS DOG C HANDLER AND MY SPECTATOR TO GO HANDLE HIS DOG{C} AND COME BACK TO A/B TREE.
WHEN DOG C HANDLER AND MY SPECTATOR GET TO DOG C's TREE. DOG D IS THERE WITH A POSSUM IN HIS MOUTH,THRASHING IT.
AND COON WAS SEEN WHEN CAST SHINNED IT!

JUDGE ONLY MINUSED DOG D ON STRIKE.EVEN THOUGH HE WAS AT A CLOSED TREE AND COON WAS SEEN.JUDGE SAID "HANDLER D NEVER TREED HIS DOG"

I SAID DOG D SHOULD BE MINUSED BOTH WAYS.
MINUSED TRACK FOR OFF GAME,MINUS TREE FOR BEING AT A CLOSED TREE WITH COON SEEN!!

WHATS THE CALL.....

You already minused him strike for off game or for being at tree with coon it doesn't matter.
He only gets minus strike.

__________________
"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
- Paul William "Bear" Bryant



GR.Nt.Ch. Pr Black Magic Queen
Past home of Gr.Nt.Ch. Splitters Magic Otis 2014 Black and Tan Days King of Hunt. GRNITECH'PR' Roughton's Black Splitter X Gr.Nt.Ch. Black Magic Queen

Why would you minus tree points? Dog was at a closed tree and a coon was seen. He only gets minus strike points per rule 4d. I assume it is a registered cast or the dog would scratched in a champion cast for having the possum. Regardless of being buddies or not the judge scored the dog correctly.

__________________
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." -
-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

Re: DOG D

quote:

---

Originally posted by prostockpat
HAD 2 WRONGS

1.POSSUM{IN HIS MOUTH}
2. WAS AT CLOSED TREE{COON SEEN}

I HAVE SEEN JUDGES MINUS DOGS FOR BEING AT CLOSED TREE WITH COON SEEN.

JUST ASKING IF IT WAS SCORED RIGHT OR NOT.
THANKS

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__________________
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." -
-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

Here's the thing Pat. The Advisor states that in order to minus under rule 4(g), the dog must be treeing when the judge arrives.
In the instance, the handler and spectator arrived to handle the dog instead of the judge but I'm sure the rule would still be applied with "when judge arrives" being replaced with "when handlers arrive". But the question that must be answered is ......was dog D treeing when the cast arrived? It sounds like the answer is no unless he was on the wood, barking treed with a possum in his mouth.
The point is, to apply 4(g), the dog must being actually treeing on a slick or offgame tree when the judge arrives. Hope this helps.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

JIM

DOG D WAS JUST AT TREE WITH POSSUM CHEWING ON IT,NOT TREE'N...LOL

SO TO CLARIFY HOW DOES A DOG GET MINUSED TRACK AND TREE FOR COMING INTO A CLOSED TREE?{WITH COON SEEN.}
NO COON SEEN DELETE or CIRCLE I THINK I KNOW THAT.

I'VE SEEN JUDGES SCORE{MINUS}DIFFERENTLY.
I WAS ON A CAST{4 DOGS} 3 ARE TREED ON SAME TREE.OTHER IS NOT,BUT IS STRUCK IN.
AFTER I THINK 7 OR 8 MIN. CAST STARTED SQUALLING.
LAST DOG CAME IN.COON WAS SEEN.
THAT NIGHT THE DOG THAT CAME IN GOT MINUSED BOTH STRIKE AND TREE?

WAS THAT RIGHT?

Pat, this may be the second most misapplied rule in UKC and I'm not sure why that is because 4(g) seems very plainly stated and easily understood to me.
There is only one situation, just ONE, no more, where a dog that wasn't called treed can get minus tree points. That is rule 4(g), a dog treeing but not declared treed WHEN THE JUDGE ARRIVES at a slick or offgame tree. Aside from that one situation, there is no instance ever when a dog not called treed can get minused tree points.
A dog that comes in and is handled at a closed tree is scored as follows. Minus strike if a coon is seen. Circle strike if the tree is minused or circled. Deleting strike points is not an option.

I would some day love to have Todd, Allen or Paul explain to me why a dog that comes into a plussed tree gets minus strike but the same dog comes into the same tree slick, they get circle strike while all the dog called treed at that tree get minused both way. I will never understand the thinking behind that one.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

wow

that cost me a win last weekend in hamilton,in.
my dog was beating/banging on a bad/cold track close to where others were treed.eventually came in when squalling started.
"ellis" minused me both ways.ended up in a tie with possum dog...lol

lost on tie breaker;most minus.
possum dog got minused on strike only,i got it both ways.

don't mind it if my dog just gets "beat"...but to lose because a judge don't know the rules{prob. shouldn't be judging then}really makes it sting.

Re: wow

quote:

---

Originally posted by prostockpat
that cost me a win last weekend in hamilton,in.
my dog was beating/banging on a bad/cold track close to where others were treed.eventually came in when squalling started.
"ellis" minused me both ways.ended up in a tie with possum dog...lol

lost on tie breaker;most minus.
possum dog got minused on strike only,i got it both ways.

don't mind it if my dog just gets "beat"...but to lose because a judge don't know the rules{prob. shouldn't be judging then}really makes it sting.

---

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

Re: Re: wow

quote:

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Originally posted by runnin rebels
don't blame the judge

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

The problem is you have to be able to read a poorly written rule, understand what they actually mean, and picture what that means in the woods. Why is the rule telling you how not to get minus points in the circle points section. No dog to rec minus points for coming into a tree unless dogs treeing are awarded plus points WTF why don't they also say no dog to receive plus points unless a majority of the cast can see a coon

__________________
GRNITECH PR. RUNNIN REBEL TCSC OLD BLUE 2012 World Hunt Qualified / Top 20
NITECH PR. THE RUNNIN REBEL COWBOY JR DOG 2012 World Hunt Qualified

I have to agree that the judge may not have been the best for the job but I have also always held the other cast members accountable. If a person is going to hunt in comp. Hunts they should know the rules and application of those rules. It is not only the judges job to make sure the cast is run correctly.

__________________
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." -
-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050