UKC Forums - National Redbone Days Date Change and Dutch Harvey

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Posted by Millcreekred12 on 02-18-2013 01:36 PM:

National Redbone Days Date Change and Dutch Harvey

First just let me say that I appreciate the work that many of the trustees and directors do for the association. However many times personal issues and conflicts make it difficult to put on a different hat than one we are currently wearing.

The last we had heard was that UKC had approved the last weekend of April. Dutch had posted this and that he needed people to get to work at Southern Days to begin the process of organizing sectionals and zoned dates and preparing for the move.

I was just curious if this took place or not and if our elected officials could give the membership an update of the progress. I for one was at the membership meeting this past July and heard and approved of Kelly Hydes motion to move the date and it passed. I was wondering if his motion made it in the official minutes and if so maybe a copy of those minutes could be posted for all to see on our new website. Which looks good.

Congratulations to all the winners at Southern Days and good luck to everyone this year.

Dutch good luck with this year and hope things go well.

Thanks,

Jeff Murphy
Millcreek Kennels

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-18-2013 04:40 PM:

Jeff, I am not an Officer, Director or Trustee but I was in the general membership meeting and also talked to a couple of the directors. It appears that there will be another vote taken at the National Hunt this July. The date of the hunt won't be changed until 2015 or 2016. In the interest of Unity we will just have to accept this and trust that our elected officers, directors, trustees will do what is best for our Association. I can understand that they feel that this is a MAJOR change and should not be rushed into.

Posted by Jack Bingham on 02-18-2013 04:48 PM:

If it was voted on and passed last Nrca days why is another vote necasary unless some are trying to override the last decision. I thought the vote at Snrd days was supposed to be on the date not if it was going to move.

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Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-18-2013 07:45 PM:

VOTE

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Jeff, I am not an Officer, Director or Trustee but I was in the general membership meeting and also talked to a couple of the directors. It appears that there will be another vote taken at the National Hunt this July. The date of the hunt won't be changed until 2015 or 2016. In the interest of Unity we will just have to accept this and trust that our elected officers, directors, trustees will do what is best for our Association. I can understand that they feel that this is a MAJOR change and should not be rushed into.

I WAS TOLD BY A BOARD MEMBER THE SAME NIGHT IT WAS VOTED ON LAST JULY THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID WOULD HAPPEN AND IT WILL NEVER BE CHANGED UNLESS THE POWERS ARE CHANGED, HE SAID THE NEXT VOTE THERE WIL BE MEMBERS COME OUT TO VOTE THAT NOBODY HAS HEARD FROM IN YEARS AND THERE WILL BE NEW MEMBERS COME TO VOTE THAT DONT EVEN OWN A HOUND, THIS IS A LONG TIME BOARD MEMBER TELLING ME THIS I DIDNT BELEIVE IT I THOUGHT HE WAS JUST BLOWING BUT IT IS HAPPENING JUST AS HE DESCRIBED, SOMETHING ABOUT CORRUPTION AND LIFE TIME HONARY MEMBERS. NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!

IF YALL WANT ME TO TAKE THIS DOWN I WILL, I AM JUST TELLING YOU WHAT I WAS TOLD BY THIS CURRENT AND LONG TIME BOARD MEMBER, I WONT METION ANY NAMES BUT IT IS HAPPENING EXACTLY LIKE HE SAID.

I WILL TAKE IT DOWN IF I NEED TO, BUT SOMEONE NEEDS TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE LOOKS TO ME LIKE

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Posted by Bobby Stevens on 02-18-2013 09:03 PM:

shew this ones gonna smell bad before its over

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Posted by jkhutch on 02-18-2013 09:15 PM:

Redbone dates......

I talked to a fellow from the Brazil club in indiana and he told me that they were wanting to put in a bid in for the 2014 hunt. He was also expecting this to be in APRIL when I talked to him. So someone needs to make this clear for the clubs wanting to put bids in for the 2014 hunt. Don't they need to be submitted before redbone days when this is to be voted on? Just asking.

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Posted by Tim MACHA on 02-18-2013 10:11 PM:

See, I told ya

from reading February's news column that something was up. How many times does this have to be voted on anyway????????????

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 02-19-2013 01:24 AM:

You nailed it LARRY the old powers at be are still pulling the strings just like always this is what has turned the stomachs of many against NRCA. You only have an organization because of the members. The members voted last July to move the date that vote is done and over it should not be brought back up.

Just like the hunt never moves around because of the old regime being held in Holmesville, LeGrange or Brazil is not moving it around it's like someone don't want it outta there back yard.

As far as the article in the bloodlines it sounds like a few are whining that don't like change the motion was made and passed get over it and move on like the members wanted.

Posted by Sawblade on 02-19-2013 02:12 AM:

What's important

National days is important to many of us. It is the place that once a year we can get together as friends and we can compare our dogs and visit and have a great time. It is the place where we pick our top dogs and recognize the hard work of all who enjoy the Redbone Coonhound. It is also a tradition . Does the day we pick to hold the event have anything to do with why we hold that event ,that answer is no.
National Days is also the place we hold our business meeting and bring up ideas for the improvement of the Association. They are debated then voted on according to their merits. As members we expect that we should be able to work within the frame work of our system to make good changes to our Association this in turn gives integrity to the system we use.
I was at the 2012 July meeting , There were many long time redbone people there. As I looked around I seen very few new people ,meetings usually don't interest them much. The motion to CHANGE the date was brought up, it was debated and it was clear that the motion was to change the date to the last weekend in April or the closest to that date that UKC would approve. It was voted on and passed by a large majority. Of the people voting there were many long time breeders and past directors and trusties, former officers and just good members all of who have my respect.

At Southern days it was stated that UKC would allow us the date . This is a good thing , as a group we have decided to try something new and see if we can improve our event by holding it in a time of year that will allow new locations and cooler weather for hunting. Some may find it harder to fit into their schedules some will find it easier. Some may not be able to help as much as before some will be able to help more.
What is of most importance is that we respect our own system and work within the honorable framework it stands for. The world will not end if we hold this event on a new date. Maybe we can all just step back and realize what is important is the event itself. Along with that we can also realize the importance of an active membership that wants some things changed once in a great while. This motion was never made to devide our membership, it's sole purpose was to make for a more enjoyable event for all. I feel solely responsible for some of the division I see in our Association ,I apologize for that. It's my hope that we move past this and work on making this a smooth change and make April 2015 the best National Days ever.

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Posted by l p w on 02-19-2013 03:11 AM:

Good deal

Sawblade i agree with you. The thing about it is if you gave some people whatever they wanted they would find something wrong with it. It doesnt matter to me when it is there is one thing for sure somebody will win. I would say the dogs that win in the 100 degree heat would sure nuff be tough when it was 45 what you think. I would say changing the date wouldnt change the winners and loosers much.

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Posted by jdgher on 02-19-2013 05:01 AM:

It is much bigger than a date change.

Problem: Members votes at 2012 National Redbone Days have been ignored. Association leaders chose to VETO (for lack of a better word) the date change and do with the Association as they felt was best for all.
Solution:
Motion 1:
The Association should go "back" to sending out ballots to the membership, so all those that PAY dues, get to nominate and elect the officers.

Motion 2:
On that same ballot add: Would you like the date of National Redbones days changed to the last weekend in April, mark yes or no.

Now we'll have "all" the membership, that Pay dues decide 1 and 2.
I know some don't like this being talked about in a public forum.
What else are we members to do in a situation like this? Keep our mouth shut and just pay our dues? This is truth deserving of discussion.
Kelly Hyde,
In my opinion you have nothing to be sorry about. You made a good motion, it was seconded and voted on, passed by the majority. The division is caused by those not following through with the date change. The date could have been changed for 1 year, if that year wasn't successful then I'm sure the majority would then vote to change it back.
Darrin Gher
21 year member
National Redbone Coonhound Association.

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Posted by Tim MACHA on 02-19-2013 05:06 AM:

I, also, would like mailed ballots

There is some that say if you are interested in the organization, you should go to the meetings. Geographically, it is hard for a working person to get away to every gathering. If the whole membership got a chance to vote, they may feel more like they belong.

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Posted by Sawblade on 02-19-2013 01:20 PM:

Darrin

When we change the date there is a very good chance it would not be able to be changed back as another association may pick up that date. I do believe that from time to time most associations feel like they need a change and I would think that at some point down the road new people in our own group may want to do the same thing as we are trying now. My opinion is that if the members voted on this and it was done correctly, which is was, than we are obligated by our own rules to follow thru. If in the future the Association feels it needs to change even more than let it be voted on and passed ,just like this date change was. Revoting leads to folly, and confusion.
There is alot to do to make this happen , concentrating on how to get all of it done and working out those details should be the next step.
If we revote on this and it is voted down than which vote wins the first one or the second one it's a tie . Do we say ,oh we don't like that and revote again and again and again. That is exactly why we have rules and we should follow them.

Posted by tylerman on 02-19-2013 01:53 PM:

I was told this is the very reason there is more than 1 assoc. now......National and American----getting to be like our Government-give the voters what we think they need,not what they want--upper tiers that cannot accomplish or follow guidlines/rules need impeached and replaced.Every time I have had to deal with politics you have to "force" people to do the right thing.Let alone anything at all.

ps.... is Kitty still sec? I have had no responce to the number I called/left message(twice) and went ahead and sent membership dues sometime back and have heard nothing?

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Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-19-2013 02:06 PM:

Here is what the board member told me

You decide if he knew what he was talking about, I said it sounds like they got the date changed,

He said it will never happen, they will not vote on the date in north carolina, they will kick it back to national days to be voted on again, and you will see old members from ohio come out that have not been heard of in years and new members come to vote that dont even own a hound. You cant beat them he said. And then there was some talk about corruption,lifetime members and a few other things and he had figured out a long time ago just to bend over and take it and smile.

When he told me all this it was just a few hours after the vote and I thought what in th eworld is he talkin about it has already been voted on and passed this guy dont have a clue, Boy was I wrong, Its like he wrote the script

Now you tell me does this man know the system or what??????

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Posted by Tim MACHA on 02-19-2013 04:44 PM:

Missing chads??? lol

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 02-19-2013 06:26 PM:

Re: I, also, would like mailed ballots

quote:
Originally posted by Tim MACHA
There is some that say if you are interested in the organization, you should go to the meetings. Geographically, it is hard for a working person to get away to every gathering. If the whole membership got a chance to vote, they may feel more like they belong.

It's a good idea Tim but you still have to trust the people counting them that they will be honest.

Posted by Dale Young on 02-19-2013 09:02 PM:

I don't have a clue how this will turn out but I've been to more than a few meetings in my time , both club & Association , and anyone that knows me has heard me say " I HATE MEETINGS " . What you've described is usually what happens and that's vote & re vote . There will certainly be more voters next time on both sides if they care about the out come and I hope enough do .
In the past I've several times spent more of my Autumn Oaks time than I cared to counting ballots with one counting and another watching over your shoulder to help avoid mistakes . A Lot of effort went into getting the count right .
I know of no other way but to have meetings and votes but they are largely a waste of time and create arguments & hard feelings where we certainly can't afford to have them but someone has to do this stuff & when carrying that burden and trying to get it right it's never never as easy as it would seem to be . It's always been the hottest time of year and seems to be getting hotter . Watch and hope for the best .

I heard 2014 was going to be at Bellevue ,Mi., anybody else hear that .

Posted by Sawblade on 02-19-2013 11:04 PM:

no revotes

Under what rule do we decide we will start revoting on motions that are passed at our general meetings. Our bylaws don't allow for that kind of action. Motions passed are to be acted on. There should be absolutely no vote on this again. we need to vote on how to handle the zone hunts and also decide weather to resubmit bids for 2014 or start the new date in 2015. but the motion was to change the date and take whatever weekend UKC gave us as close to april 30th. . THAT MOTION PASSED .If you like the idea you should be happy if you don't ,get over it and lets move forward with the planning. Whatever we do lets not destroy our rules over this.

Look at some of the people that are in favor of this ,it's not a list of trouble makers that have been barred from UKC . The people that passed this motion are long time redbone folks that deserve the respect of us all. They thought this thru and want some change. It's going to be just fine , let's make this work for a better National Days.

NO RE-VOTE ,the motion was passed.

Posted by Larry D Walker on 02-19-2013 11:27 PM:

Re: no revotes

I SECOND THAT, AGREE 100%%%%%%%%

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Under what rule do we decide we will start revoting on motions that are passed at our general meetings. Our bylaws don't allow for that kind of action. Motions passed are to be acted on. There should be absolutely no vote on this again. we need to vote on how to handle the zone hunts and also decide weather to resubmit bids for 2014 or start the new date in 2015. but the motion was to change the date and take whatever weekend UKC gave us as close to april 30th. . THAT MOTION PASSED .If you like the idea you should be happy if you don't ,get over it and lets move forward with the planning. Whatever we do lets not destroy our rules over this.

Look at some of the people that are in favor of this ,it's not a list of trouble makers that have been barred from UKC . The people that passed this motion are long time redbone folks that deserve the respect of us all. They thought this thru and want some change. It's going to be just fine , let's make this work for a better National Days.

NO RE-VOTE ,the motion was passed.

__________________
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Indiana

812-327-8224

Posted by OLD TIMER on 02-20-2013 01:47 AM:

What is an Association made of ???

I have been a member for 28 years, I have voted on different things over those years and sometimes I was on the winning side after the count and sometimes not. BUT I always went with the way it came out.

I was not at last years meeting, but was really happy with the vote to change the date on this hunt. I have read the by-laws and I would say that a motion was made at the annual meeting with a second and a vote was taken to change the date to the end of April or the nearest date to the end of April that is approved by UKC.

When you take on the duties of an officer in any club, you have to do what's in the best interest of the club and what you where asked to undertake. Now if "someone" dropped the ball to get it done for this year so it wouldn't happen, they should answer to the Board and I would say that they're not much of an Association member in my eyes, or if "someone" thinks that the above vote didn't meet the by-laws of this Association, you better RETHINK that one again.

This is the National Redbone Coonhound Association, INC. Article VI tells me that a member "shall be entitled to vote at annual meeting" which they did. Article VII tells me that a quorum shall be considered present when 25 members in good standing are present, and there was more than that at last years meeting. #4 under this Article tells me that the Annual meeting "shall be held near the center of membership as possible".

I put some numbers together over 62 years of National Redbone Days=21 was in Ohio, 10 in Illinois, 12 in Indiana, 3 in Missouri, 7 in Kentucky 2 in Iowa and 7 in Michigan.

For all you comp hunters I have one question??? How many times do you vote on a question in a hunt? And if you don't like the way it came out, do you vote again in hopes that you get your way??

I guess we will see what kind of "people" we have elected to run this Association.

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Posted by Nate Ratcliff on 02-20-2013 01:48 AM:

I also agree with Kelly.You guys voted at NRDS this should not be changed as far as the mailed vote against that.It's like was said above members that don't own a hound or may have never voted would hurt the ones that want it changed.I would like to be apart of the board.I hope some of you other guys that want an change in our association would also try to get on and help out with it.Can't change without a change within the board......

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Posted by RyanBeasley on 02-20-2013 02:11 AM:

I was not at either meeting, and since that hunt is always July 4th, I have "gotten used to" not attending this event. Guys, it's 90 degrees at night down here everynight during that time of the year, 7 species of venomous snakes, and alligators. Did I mention its 90 degrees at night???? My hard hunted dogs that I would love to show off have been layed up for 3 months at least to go up there and try to "prove themselves". OK, I'm not crying, I for one loved the idea of it changing dates. I also know that I was not there and did not vote so whether I agreed or not there's only one option and that is to deal with it. I think the new board and leadership has brought up great points and great ideas. All they can do is let us as a membership decide and vote which seems to be what happened whether they personally agree or disagree. I'm only one vote, but I support our majority as a breed, b/c if I'm not there as a hunter then you can bet I'm supporting my breed and cheering on the rest of you guys no matter who you are.

Ryan Beasley

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Posted by jdgher on 02-20-2013 03:38 PM:

Re: It is much bigger than a date change.

quote:
Originally posted by jdgher
Problem: Members votes at 2012 National Redbone Days have been ignored. Association leaders chose to VETO (for lack of a better word) the date change and do with the Association as they felt was best for all.
Solution:
Motion 1:
The Association should go "back" to sending out ballots to the membership, so all those that PAY dues, get to nominate and elect the officers.

Motion 2:
On that same ballot add: Would you like the date of National Redbones days changed to the last weekend in April, mark yes or no.

Now we'll have "all" the membership, that Pay dues decide 1 and 2.
I know some don't like this being talked about in a public forum.
What else are we members to do in a situation like this? Keep our mouth shut and just pay our dues? This is truth deserving of discussion.
Kelly Hyde,
In my opinion you have nothing to be sorry about. You made a good motion, it was seconded and voted on, passed by the majority. The division is caused by those not following through with the date change. The date could have been changed for 1 year, if that year wasn't successful then I'm sure the majority would then vote to change it back.
Darrin Gher
21 year member
National Redbone Coonhound Association.

Maybe I missunderstood.
Question for those that attended the Southern National Redbone Days meeting(s).

1). Has the National Redbone Coonhound Association "leadership" agreed to change the date to April? Yes or No

2). Is the National Redbone Coonhound Association going to continue holding this hunt in July beyond the year 2014?

3). What concerning the date change is to be voted on at
National Redbone days 2013?

Posted by Dale Young on 02-20-2013 04:08 PM:

I've said I'm in favor of the change to late April so don't misunderstand the following .

I used the term RE-VOTE and it may have caused more trouble than I wanted it to . My meaning from the beginning was that if the changes are not done by the next meeting it is possible that someone will submit another proposal that concerns the same issue and then you have to deal with that proposal . I don't know if anything prevents this from happening but I have seen it happen in other places and it nearly creates a Hatfields & McCoys situation . I hope that don't happen .

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